Progressive and Interlaced Questions

[kiNg0r3ad]

Ok, so I'm trying to rip the Afroman video off of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back and the normal process I go thru isn't working. Normally, I rip the VOB's and then run it through DVD2AVI preview. If it's more than like 94% FILM, then I run DVD2AVI with forced FILM. Otherwise, I don't. Here's the thing: the video starts off as like Progressive NTSC and then goes to FILM and like alternates in between. How do you deal with cases like this? The movie is almost the same way. Is starts off as interlaced and then ends up as FILM. I don't need to rip the movie, since I own the DVD, but for the music video what am I supposed to do? Has anyone had any luck ripping this movie or the music video. My ultimate goal is to get them in SVCD format. Any help would be much appreciated.

[stanwebber]

select field operation/none & encode 29.97fps or inverse telecine(aviutil, tmpgenc, virtualdub)

[kiNg0r3ad]

Ok, I let TMPGEnc go thru with the Inverse Telecine and a whole bunch of frames still had the horizontal line artifacts all over them. I'm trying it now encoding it just at 29.97 fps without any filters or pulldown or de-interlacing. As for the movie, how should I go about doing that. The FILM percentage is greater than 94% for the most part but there are certain bits of it that drag well below that. Am I still safe using the FORCED FILM option. I understand why you have to do certain things, but it just seems like they randomly interlaced certain parts of this movie.

[kiNg0r3ad]

Ok, the 29.97 encode has more lines than the other one that I tried. I'm doing this all in TMPGEnc. Am I doing something wrong or what? Also, should I be using the NTSC Film template when I do the IVTC and Pulldown or the regular NTSC template. I've never had this much trouble doing this and now it's pissing me off. Congrats to the makers of the J&SB DVD for making this so complicated.

[stanwebber]

if your goal is to completely remove interlace artifacts you are flailing away at a dead horse. the interlacing is supposed to be there before you start & after you finish for a proper svcd. even if you ivtc & get perfect 24fps progressive frames, 3:2 pulldown will reintroduce interlace artifacts on playback all over again to make it ntsc compatible. the ntsc film template is for forced film. to ivtc use the ntsc template & specify 23.976fps output, 3:2 pulldown, interlaced source, check proper field order

[poopyhead]

yep, if there are parts of the film that significantly goes towards NTSC...then you have to treat the entire thing as NTSC...

for example, it starts off as FILM...but then the % FILM decreases and % NTSC starts increasing till the very end when the movie is almost entirely NTSC

in this case, even though part of the movie was still FILM, or partially FILM, you have to treat the entire movie as NTSC, otherwise you will get horitonal lines...and if you try to use the "de-interlace" filter, your rip will be jumpy and have half the resolution (in other words, crap)

so, like webber said, turn FORCED FILM off in dvd2avi, and use the NTSC FILM template...the source should be interlaced (also, field order matters...if you choose the wrong one, your rip will be jumpy on the TV...not on computer monitor....my suggestion is to encode a little bit and then burn on cd-rw and test it on TV)

also, the output video should be 29.97 fps, interlaced (not 3:2 pulldown)

[kinneera]

turn FORCED FILM off in dvd2avi, and use the NTSC FILM template

If forced film is off and you are not intending to perform IVTC, you do not want to use the NTSC Film template.

[poopyhead]

kinneera, turning FORCED FILM off in dvd2avi means you're treating your source file as interlaced NTSC...so using NTSC FILM template would be appropriate...in other words...the output video would be 29.97 fps, interlaced, and not 3:2 pulldown....

[kinneera]

Absolutely not. The NTSC FILM template is exactly that, it sets the output to the FILM framerate of 23.976 and sets the "3:2 pulldown on playback" flag. Both can be changed, and you have the concept correct, but telling people to use that template is incorrect. The template that will already have the correct settings will the be regular NTSC template.

[poopyhead]

heh..my bad...i haven't had to change templates in awhile.....yes...i meant the regular NTSC template...

[kiNg0r3ad]

Ok, I'm referring to something that's like 50% NTSC and 50% FILM. It's a really weird video. Everything I tried has resulted in some sort of horizontal interlacing artifacts. Sometimes it's not as bad as with others, other times it's just horrible. I've tried doing an IVTC, but that doesn't completely work. I've tried all kinds of combinations...which one is the right one? Even doing it the way described below yields horizontal lines on a lot of places. I'm ready to just de-interlace the whole thing with the Even-Odd field interlace. Sure, it blurs the image, but at least the damn lines won't be EVERYWHERE!!

[stanwebber]

tmpgenc deinterlace/even-odd field will give you a 60fps stream. it seperates the fields(60fps) & doubles the vertical resolution. it's useful for checking field-order. granted, you'll still get a 29.97fps, but tmpgenc will frame-decimate which not what you want

[kiNg0r3ad]

w3ird. Cuz I was about to give up and I did just that. Even-Odd field and I tried adaptation too and both gave me better results than anything else did. The video plays fine, it's 29.97fps and there's no artifacts. No skipping or anything else either. What happened?

[stanwebber]

nothing happened....except that you'd be able to make a vcd that looked equally good or better so why bother with svcd if you feel you need to throw away half the picture detail?

[kiNg0r3ad]

Right now I feel the need to just send you this .vob file and see what you can do with it. The IVTC and all that other stuff didn't yield better quality...there were lines all over the place. So far, the best results came with the Even-Odd deinterlace, or even the Even or the Odd alone. I don't get how I'm supposed to do it. You said yourself that IVTC didn't always work right. Apparently it didn't, cuz there were lines all over. Has anyone had luck with this video in particular? Stan, is there a web site that you can point me to to explain the particulars of doing weird movies like this. I don't get why the Even-Odd gives me the best results if I can get better with the other stuff.

[stanwebber]

how are you evaluating your results? viewing them on a pc monitor is simply not good enough; burn a cdrw & watch on your standalone. if the dvd looks perfect to you on the pc try disabling software bob(force weave in powerdvd) to see how it REALLY looks. then again if the dvd is truly mastered badly(it happens, but i doubt this is the case for major studios), then no amount of inquiry here will give you remedy. if it's fixable you will have to figure it out yourself. my best guess is you are creating problems for yourself that dont exist

[kiNg0r3ad]

It's not that I'm creating problems for myself, it's just that a whole messload of frames are interlaced and the rest of the film (prolly about 97% of it) is in standard Progressive FILM. I'm a perfectionist and I'd like the movie to be fairly consistent throughout in terms of quality. The interlaced frames that are scattered throughout are what is bugging me. But after watching the movie right from the DVD, I see the horizontal line artifacts there too. I guess I can't get it better than it is on the DVD, can I?

[stanwebber]

if you want perfection teach yourself how to manual ivtc & go thru the entire film frame by frame. with any luck you'll be done in 3-4 hours, but it will be perfect if you dont miss anything. the alternative is using a specialized area-based deinterlace filter to clean up misjudged frames while leaving the rest relatively untouched. turning forced film off & encoding 29.97fps will give you a perfect transfer as well, but you end up throwing away 20% of the bitrate. as you say....if you're dissatified with dvd-quality to begin with, then you will never be happy with svcd

[malducci]

Not sure if this helps but,

If the video is a hybrid( interlaced and progressive sections ) , you can deinterlace by blending the fields. This will keep your vertical resolution and detail of the video intact - the progressive frames won't noticably loose detail and the whole video can be encoded as progressive( assuming from what I understand, that you have interlaced video mixed with progressive video ). I had to use this on a Cure video from a DVD rip - every x-number of frames would have a progressive frame while the rest were interlaced, I knew the original video was FILM or PAL FILM(progressive PAL )and I could not get Decomb.dll, IVTC.dll, or VirtualDub to reverse the process. I eventually gave up and encoded the whole thing as progressive NTSC 29.97fps video