tsMuxer + TrueHD = garbled sound

[picrade]

I am trying to do a BD-25 movie only backup of The Nightmare Before Christams, US edition, using tsMuxer.
It has a 7.1 TrueHD sound track.
The backup BD has garbled sound, basically pops and crackles.

There are some earlier threads on Doom9 that say earlier versions of tsMuxer could not handle TrueHD.
But later threads state that this has been fixed in later versions.
I am using 1.10.6 version which is the latest version.

Is this the problem with tsMuxer or this particular title?
The original disc plays TrueHD fine.

I have used tsMuxer with BDs with DTSHD MA with no playback problem.
This is the first one I tried with TrueHD track.

Any other movie only backup program that can handle TrueHD?
(Don't want to use TsRemux as that doesn't preserve chapters)

[Baldrick]

Please post backup in our blu-ray backup section. Moving you.

Tried an eac3to gui like clown_bd?

[picrade]

Had a cursory look at clown_bd. It seems that it uses tsMuxer underneath.
So if the problem is with tsMuxer...

Anyway, I am going to give it a try.
Thanks.

[picrade]

clown_bd didn't work either. Same sound problem.
What is it about TrueHD that is so difficult to handle?

[picrade]

Used TsRemux and TrueHD works fine, as I was told it would.
But original chapter points are lost.
I guess you can't have everything.

[fritzi93]

When using Clown_BD, you could try downconverting (extracting the core audio). I've had to do that a number of times. Or try BDRB, target file size, BD25. Check your output, are you sure tsRemux didn't extract just the core of the audio?

As I understand it, ffdshow does not (yet) decode the full TrueHD stream correctly. The Arcsoft and Sonic TrueHD codecs are supposedly better, but not free, if you can even find them as stand-alone purchasable codecs.

As to chapter points, you could re-load the original, copy the chapter points to note pad, and re-insert as custom chapter timings when authoring.

[picrade]

I don't want to use BDRB as that re-encodes video. I am doing a movie only backup which fits on a BD25 with room to spare.
Besides BDRB like clown_bd uses tsMuxer for muxing.
The problem is with tsMuxer; it somehow corrupts TrueHD track.

Yes, I am sure TsRemux didn't do just the core. My Blu-ray player, PowerDVD and BDInfo all identify the track as TrueHD.
Also the m2ts file size is just about the same size as the one produced by tsMuxer.
If TsRemux had used just the core the file size would have been a few gigs smaller I would think.

[fritzi93]

The point of using Clown_BD is, as Baldrick pointed out, the fact that it's an EAC3TO front-end. If you're unwilling to try extracting the core audio with it, then I suppose you can do it as you have done with tsRemux. As I said, I've used Clown_BD many times to handle TrueHD audio.

The point of trying BDRB is that you can do movie-only from a whole-disc rip and if small enough, it won't re-encode the video. If you have it set to convert the audio, I should think it would work. I feel certain I've done it successfully that way, but I'd have to check. Sometimes a TrueHD track is too problematic, dunno why.

All that's by the by if you're determined to keep the TrueHD untouched.

I confess I have not used tsRemux, can you insert custom chapter timings or does it not output to Blu-Ray structure? That seems to me an unfortunate drawback that you lost the chapters.

[picrade]

When you say that you used clown_bd many times to handle TrueHD, do you mean it kept the track untouched or
just the core?
I know that it gives you the option to use the core only (same with DTS-HD, keep just the core).
But I want the TrueHD untouched track.

TrueHD as you said seems to be problematic.

The thing is that tsMuxer says that it can handle TrueHD tracks, those that have AC3 core, same as the title I was
trying to backup. It accepted the track, went the whole process of muxing with no error or anything.
Yet the result was failure.
Whereas the one done with TsRemux plays the sound flawlessly.

Basically as far as freeware goes tsMuxer and TsRemux seem to be the only choices for muxing BD streams.

TsRemux is more limited. It only takes streams (m2ts files), whereas tsMuxer can take playlists (mpls).
That's why TsRemux can't preserve the original chapters; they are in the mpls file.
TsRemux will insert chapters every so many minutes that you choose, which is pretty much useless.

But I fixed the chapter problem. I edited the mpls file produced by TsRemux with a hex editor and manually
adjusted the chapters to what they should be.

There is a tool called BDedit. It allows you to edit just about anything in a BD structure.
One feature is to import/export chapter points in a mpls.
I tried importing chapters from the original disc into the mpls produced by TsRemux.
But it didn't work. The mpls saved by BDedit was truncated.

My suspicion is that TsRemux produces an AVCHD structure rather than a true BD structure.
Though similar there are subtle differences between the two.
I suspect that is the cause of BDedit failure. Because I used BDedit import/export of chapters with a BD backup
done by tsMuxer and it worked.

That is a guess though. I am still learning this HD stuff.

[fritzi93]

No, I never keep the TrueHD, I always re-encode it, you got me there.

Can't give you a good answer, just a few empirical observations:

Oftentimes, going on reports of members here, keeping TrueHD untouched will work in BDRB if the target is BD25, encoding from a full-disc rip. Oddly though, the very same movie may produce buggered audio if the target is BD9. That was mentioned in the Doom9 bug report thread, but was probably more to do with BDRB. It might have been fixed, haven't kept up the last few weeks.

I have several movies with TrueHd that have a sync discontinuity, usually at the layer change. With EAC3To it can be corrected, but only by outputting as AC3. It's possible the problems at the layer change are simply faulty discs, it happens. That's only apparent with rips, the original discs play okay on standalone Blu-Ray players.

I recall reading on Doom9 that ffdshow, which most of us here use, cannot decode the full TrueHD stream information. And, as you say, there are numerous reports of problems using tsMuxer to mux TrueHD.

OTOH, going from reports, tsRemux can be used to "correct" a problematic transport stream. I too wonder what it's actually doing, and in what way it changes the output. It's interesting that BDEdit failed with the tsRemux output.

Dumb question, and when I get a chance, I'll look for myself: Can you not insert custom chapter timings with tsRemux? Nothing in settings you overlooked? It's odd that chapters can be inserted every so many minutes but not custom timings.

Anyway, that was an ingenious workaround you came up with.

[yoda313]

EDIT - Sorry wrong program - ignore post please

[picrade]

TsRemux doesn't have much of a settings. It has a one screen GUI.
There is no option to insert custom chapters at arbitrary points.
It has the option to convert TrueHD to AC3 and DTS-HD to DTS.
It can trim from the beginning and the end of the stream.
It can output as ts, m2ts or Blu-ray.
That's pretty much it with the options.

Even though it has Blu-ray output option I am now certain that it produces AVCHD structure.
The other drawback is that as I mentioned before it only takes streams not playlists.
So if the movie is spread over several m2ts files it's useless.