Will a month-long wait to rent new DVDs become the norm?

[joepic]

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/64039;_ylt=Asktn5KLGHcZ7wPNWTkSbWIWLpA5

Netflix recently inked an agreement with Warner Brothers that calls for a 28-day "window" before offering the studio's latest DVDs and Blu-rays for rent, and now there's speculation that more studios and rental outlets—including Redbox, and even brick-and-mortar mainstays like Blockbuster and Movie Gallery—might end up cutting similar deals, all in the name of boosting sagging disc sales.
So, here's the background: DVD sales are down, so down that even a recent surge in Blu-ray revenue can't make up the difference. (Indeed, a recent report found that for the first time in more than a decade, U.S. film lovers spent more on movie tickets than on DVDs.) The big Hollywood studios, which had been making a mint on DVD sales until a few years ago, are freaking out, and they're starting to see the burgeoning DVD and Blu-ray rental market—particularly the rise of Redbox and its $1-a-night DVD rentals—as part of the problem.

The solution, according to Hollywood? To boost disc sales with the help of month-long release "windows," during which the only way for movie fanatics like you and me to watch a brand-new DVD or Blu-ray movie is to buy it.

Three of the biggest Hollywood studios—20th Century Fox, Universal, and Warner Brothers—have already instructed their disc distributors not to sell wholesale copies of their movies to Redbox, and the kiosk company has responded by a) filing a trio of (still pending) lawsuits, and b) buying new DVDs and Blu-rays from the three studios at retail stores, albeit with steep retail markups.

[edDV]

yes, until they decide it makes no difference.

[ron spencer]

wont stop the mom and pops in small towns

[Lawbringer]

Funny, the opposite used to be true for VHS. Rental stores would get tapes months before they would ever go on sale for the general public.

The honest truth is, there are so many people trying to get new releases on Netflix, it usually TAKES about a month (or at least a couple of weeks) before a disc is no longer in "Very Long Wait" status.

So while it may become the norm, I think it may provide an initial boost in sales while ultimately making very little difference.

Instead of trying to screw the consumer, perhaps Hollywood should consider how they can decrease production costs, and thus retail costs, and provide a better value to the buyers. Releasing 15 versions of the same movie - special edition, extended edition, director's cut, ultimate director's cut, collector's edition, 10th anniversary edition, double secret yo-mama edition - is not the way to go. It floods the market, confuses the people, and ultimately costs Hollywood money.

[lordsmurf]

I don't really care. Watching movies on Tuesday night isn't what I live for.

[Teutatis]

Not only are they delaying the rental releases, but it seems that Netflix is getting fewer and fewer Blu-rays. Every movie I want to see is either a "Long Wait" or a "Very Long Wait".

[Seeker47]

There are over 300 titles in my Netflix queue. (I know some people whose list is much longer.) And Netflix is hardly my only resource -- many years of nearly unlimited movies on cable in the past, probably from satellite in the future. So, it's not like there is any shortage of viewing options. Even for an ardent movie buff. It helps if one has a modicum of patience. Many titles in that Netflix queue were recent "can't wait to see" titles for many people, at one time. And if you really wanted to see them in the first place but still haven't seen them, 6 months or a year later, they haven't lost any appeal in the interim.

[cal_tony]

For BRs I buy I wait for the price to drop on Amazon so the 30 day wait for the rental wouldn't make much difference to me.
Since I didn't go to the theater to see it when it was first released I'm not in any rush.

Like LS, without having the movie 'now', my life will go on.

Tony

[MOVIEGEEK]

Warner has already started doing this with two movies released to retail on 1/16, I will wait to see if those titles are readily available on 2/16. If they aren't then Netflix will be inundated by angry subscribers, If this does succeed then expect other studios to strike deals with Netflix.
As for Redbox I think they have a good case against the studios, the First Sale Doctrine says if you buy a disc you can rent it out.

[handyguy]

It's just longer wait time for Deaf people to see films that have captions or subs but might not in theaters. Some theaters have rear window captioning technology. If you look to the back of the room near the projection booth you can see backwards writing, that's rear window captioning.

[mail2tom]

It appears that "the big Hollywood studios" haven't clued in on reality, where many people are now forced to spend their "extra" money on necessities to live day-to-day, rather than being the first one on the block to have "the first day release" of a movie.

[joepic]

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,1952041,00.html

A side effect of the 28 delay deal that Netflix signed with Warner Bros is that Netflix gets more stuff to stream from WB. This makes it unlikely that Time Warner cable will be able to throttle or limit Netflix streaming. That would kind of negate the streaming part of the deal.

[dafoe]

These people are so out of touch with reality it's scary.

First of all, a lot of people don't collect or even buy movies. Those people are not going to buy a movie simply because they can't rent it for a month. And the people that do buy/collect movies and were going to buy it within 4 weeks of it's release date were never going to rent it.

They will also lose sales from people who do buy movies. Let's say somone is on the fence about a movie and wants to rent it first. They rent it, like it, and go buy it at retail. That wont happen anymore. Under the new system, the persons rents it, likes it, and since it's been out for at least a month buys one of the hundreds of copies on Ebay for half of retail- which they (the studios) get no money for.

Furthermore, some of the people that were renting from Redbox and Netflix and don't want to wait a month will just download the movie illegally and not have to pay or worry about the hassle of returning the movie. The only effect this is going to have is to hurt DVD and Blu Ray rentals.

When are these people going to learn? The consumer sets the market. Not the other way around. They can't force people to buy their products. And like another poster mentioned, the economy is shot. Entertainment is going to be the first place people are going to make cuts when downsizing their budget. That's why sales are down.

Unreal.

[guns1inger]

The guys at the Hollywood Saloon podcast did one of their short form Saloon Shots on this a month ago. You can download the mp3 version here for a listen.

Broadband in this backwater is such that direct download movies have no appeal, and my viewing habits (timewise) are too random to warrant a Netflix like subscription. I was also unimpressed with the local range, as they are very blockbuster/new release or low budget crap oriented. Because we don't have local releases of things like Criterion and Blue Underground unless studio picks up distribution (which happens very rarely), the range of actual quality classic films is pretty low.

[redwudz]

The last time I updated my Netflix queue, I had a hard time finding much of anything worth watching. That's not from the lack of selection, just the lack of quality offerings. Maybe I'm picky, but most of what's available doesn't interest me.

AFAIK, Netflix has always delayed their offerings. I see movies most times in my grocery store's rental kiosk before Netflix lists them.

[jagabo]

Redbox is caving in to the studios too:

http://www.physorg.com/news185607983.html

The delay won't make any difference. Except on kids' titles. Parents will give in when the kids come home and beg for the new release that all their friends got.

[handyguy]

Netflix has STARZ for streaming, it has more recent films.

[bendixG15]

Redbox is caving in to the studios too:

http://www.physorg.com/news185607983.html

The delay won't make any difference. Except on kids' titles. Parents will give in when the kids come home and beg for the new release that all their friends got.

from the link ........
Redbox agreed to destroy used DVDs after their popularity in the kiosks wanes instead of selling them for $7.

[jagabo]

Sorry, I picked the first story in my google search and didn't read it closely. Here's one that mentions the 28 day delay:

http://paidcontent.org/article/419-redbox-drops-warner-bros.-lawsuit-accepts-extended-dvd-window-/

Redbox has ended its lawsuit against Warner Brothers Home Entertainment and will give in to the Time Warner (NYSE: TWX) unit’s demands for a longer lead time before the DVD kiosk operator makes its rentals available. The deal calls for new release DVD and Blu-ray titles to be made available to Redbox customers after a 28-day window.

[Seeker47]

These people are so out of touch with reality it's scary.
. . .
Furthermore, some of the people that were renting from Redbox and Netflix and don't want to wait a month will just download the movie illegally and not have to pay or worry about the hassle of returning the movie. The only effect this is going to have is to hurt DVD and Blu Ray rentals.

When are these people going to learn? The consumer sets the market. Not the other way around. They can't force people to buy their products. And like another poster mentioned, the economy is shot. Entertainment is going to be the first place people are going to make cuts when downsizing their budget. That's why sales are down.

Unreal.

You're so right. It's downright scary (to any copyright holder) just how prevalent almost everything has become online --- for free -- and how quickly. Many people would never go that route, due to honesty or quality or other reasons, but no one should be surprised how an economy like this can knock all that askew. Plus, making consumers jump through a bunch of hoops is always counter-productive, and prompts other options in very short order.

[TooLFooL]

most of the US has taken a pretty hard hit in the econony, but Hollywood refuses to be a part of it. They will get thier money no matter what it takes.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Netflix has STARZ for streaming, it has more recent films.

True but most of them look like crap, some studios(Miramax, Dreamworks, etc) are also angry at STARZ because Netflix isn't paying royalties to the studios.

"We probably would not distribute our product along the lines of the Starz distribution” with Netflix, Blank said. “We think that type of distribution disadvantages our current customers unfairly given how much money they pay us for the service."

The good news is the deal covers Marvel Entertainment, Walt Disney Pictures, Touchstone Pictures and Hollywood Pictures, as well as Disney and Pixar-branded animation.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-11/disney-reaches-pay-tv-film-deals-with-star...-update1-.html

[jagabo]

"We probably would not distribute our product along the lines of the Starz distribution” with Netflix, Blank said. “We think that type of distribution disadvantages our current customers unfairly given how much money they pay us for the service."

What a bunch of hogwash. Current Starz subscribers still get exactly what they always got. Only Disney is "disadvantaged" when subscribers decide to drop their subscriptions and go with Netflix.

I find Netflix's streaming to be good enough for most movies and TV shows. If I need better I can always get the DVD. We're getting pretty close to dropping our cable TV subscription. Live sports and 24 hour news are about the only things left that we can't get via IP.

[JohnnyBob]

Maybe, if you're talking about Netflix.

I've already seen all of the oldies worth watching, so am only interested in new releases. I don't have Blu-Ray equipment and have no plans to acquire it, so it must be on DVD. My connection isn't fast enough for good quality streaming.

I've noticed that Netflix is offering fewer and fewer new movies on DVD. I don't have exact numbers but believe it's like 50% (or less) of a year ago. Also, the delay in getting new DVD movies from Netflix is becoming serious. They're almost always put on Long Wait or Very Long Wait, so obviously they're not stocking enough to meet the demand. It's now the norm to wait 1-2 months to have a new movie in the queue shipped.

The only solution I know is to put my Netflix account on hold more often, which I'm doing again this coming week. It will take at least 1-2 months to accumulate enough new movies in my queue that are currently 'Available' to make it worthwhile reactivating another month of 3-out-at-a-time. Netflix is a loser in this scenario - they'll be getting less of my money. That's definitely not my preference. My appetite for new movies is very great. They're just not being supplied in significant quantities anymore, so I'm being forced to look for other areas/methods of entertainment.

[lordsmurf]

My connection isn't fast enough for good quality streaming.

Most connections aren't.

[JohnnyBob]

Based on what? About all we ever hear from you are lofty unsupported generalities, no documentation. I can't believe anything you say anymore. It falls into the category of quackery, nonsense, best ignored else the brain is filled with junk.

[lordsmurf]

Based on what? .

Based on actually working in the video industry where I have to know these things.

[overloaded_ide]

I have not bought a new release movie probably in years so I don't care about them. I got Netflix several months ago, not tried to rent even one new release yet! If they made movies worth watching more people would buy them! That is why sales are down! When people I know go to the theaters and I ask them how the movie was normally they say, Eh it was ok, or Not too bad or Waste of money. Rarely do they say it was great or that I should go see it! I ask if they are going to buy it on DVD and they say, Probably not. I been buying fairly lot of DVDs, but they are all good older movies and come from the $5 section! This morning I bought my first new release DVD set, 3 disk set of Tremors, the TV series. I have the 4 movies, a 4 disk set that was bought for $10, but I never got to see the TV series yet. I found 1 copy of the series set in the store a few days ago and passed on it. Been thinking about it since then and this morning they still had that one copy so I paid the $20 and got it. 13 shows, near 10hrs I think the box said? Maybe it was more? I figure it this way, $5 for a 2hr (or less) movie I would need $25 of $5 DVDs to get the same viewing time. 1 Crappy new movie for 2 hours or less is $20 So $20 for the set was not too bad a deal, and since I like the movies and been hoping they come out with a new #5 sometime this is like getting #5 and more for me. If there had been a full shelf of these sets I would not have bought it today, but knowing the store when sold out it may never be back again so I grabbed it while I could. There was allot of thought about various things before I grabbed this set. I should have just waited till next year and probably got it on the $5 rack LOL The only real reason I have Netflix is I want good older movies to watch and I can't buy those in the stores. I am happy with just watching a few old things like the TV series Lost in Space once again. Get Smart Tv series also, I only saw the complete all seasons set for sale once and no way I would pay the $150 to buy it! That is robbery and greed! I wonder if it sold well? Not to ME!! Watching it all one time, a disk here and there, is good enough so I just rent it on Netflix, otherwise I would just do without! Once I see a few more of the classic movies and TV series all the way through, maybe 2 more months, I will probably even cancel Netflix.

[RdM642]

I don't think this will have the desired affect. We recently cancelled our cable. It was $170 a month (two hd dvrs plus sho and hbo). We went with a WHS, some streamers, playon (netlflix, hulu and all the networks, plus many other channels with playon plugins). We have netflix $10/month which has the free unlimited live, which is frankly pretty good quality on our 3mb connection. We also have Blockbuster $20 which give us 3 out plus unlimited store trades. Blockbuster give us BD at no extra charge, plus they have way more available new releases. And we have quite an accumulation of unwatched DVD's on the server as the used DVD market is cheap as heck.

We already had our $30/3mps dsl so we are saving $170 a month minus $10 for the new netflix subscription. We are literally AWASH in content.

Now without prejudice to the legality and ethics of either outright pirating or (IMHO less egregious) rental time shifting, the moves by the content providers, in this case the studios, seem ill advised. I think they are going to encourage piracy with these new policies.

What they are going to find is the people who would have never bought, but would would have contributed to royalties through rental demand, are going to pop these off of torrents. Torrents and other means are not just about avoiding paying rental fees, they are about access to content that is not on the market, either because of structured regional marketing delays or within a category (eg available for purchase but not rental).

I think we will find that full quality rips are on torrents the day of release for sale, and that delaying rental is just going to cannibalize rental revenue. If you'd asked me a year ago if torrents made a big dent I would say no, but a couple of interesting things have happened since I got my WHS and streamers. frist I learned that a lot of people are hacking streamers to be torrent clients. apparently this is the core aim of the burgeoning third party firmware development for my WD streamer. Secondly the sneaker net (what we used to call the original piracy wth physical user user group meetings) is huge when it comes to films nowadays. People at the office trade dvd copies daily and lately this has changed to mass cloning 2tb drives of content at a time!

These delays are just going to make a bigger base of people more aware of the possibilities and the ease of acquiring content without paying for its production.

[harrisonford]

The real truth IS, five to six years ago, all these old movies were being put to DVD as well as TV series, well two things changed, I don't have cable or Sat either, everyone has all those movies that are their favs now, with a limited number of favourite movies, say the top 2500, and not eveyone will buy all 2500, some will and more, BUT, since only one or two good movies maybe in a good week will a person buy a movie probably less now, So, considering limited buying in poor economic times lesssons the limited resources to buy, and people already have mostly what they want. The bubble for sales of DVD is long past, the movie industry should have better judge their marketing and sales, rich than, poor now, go whine in your wine stinking rolls you morons. You did it to yourself, congrats, the only thing saving hollywood right now is mcuh better movies than 2 or 3 years ago when everything was nearly junk, If hollywood tries to produce junk like a few years ago, people will stop totally, and Hollywood will have to drink XXX from rummies in south central, and drive bicycles, going green is good for hollywood to!