Constellation Dead?? Not going back to the moon??

[Browncoat]

I recently came across a news article which says the project has been cancelled! http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1005910

I am completely stunned.. This is the sadest news i've heard in a long time..

[guns1inger]

It is unfortunate, but the reality is that with the money spent on the war, the recent economic issues, the likely future cost of complying with climate change policies, and playing catch up on the general anti-science position of the previous government, going to the moon doesn't seem to have enough reward for the outlay. Hell, they didn't even plan ahead for the retirement of the space shuttle.

[lordsmurf]

general anti-science position of the previous government,

I thought the plan back then was to let angels swoops down off the clouds and carry us towards the heavens?

[stiltman]

Why do we need to go back to the moon or even go to Mars?
I think we should explore everything here first.

The governments around the world don't need to fund all this. All we need it some thing that can launch sats.
It's the businesses around the globe that need to fund space exploration.

I could give a hoot that there's water on one of the moon's pole, when people are starving to death on earth.

[Browncoat]

I believe its our destiny to move out there. Furthermore it is the only chance we as a species have for survival... This constellation cancellation is just another nail in our coffin.

[guns1inger]

One of the bigger picture things to consider is our precarious position in the universe. The universe does not care about us. It will, given the chance, kill us without blinking. And we are an easy target. All of our eggs, so to speak, are on this one pale blue basket. Another impact like the KT impact and 90% of life will be wiped from the surface - major reset of the planet. One way to mitigate this risk is to get people out into the solar system and off the planet. This is not a small undertaking, and will require the use of the moon as a stepping stone to greater things. 90% of the fuel load of our current craft is expended just getting free of the earth. Being able to launch from space - i.e the moon or high orbit stations - is far more efficient.

There is also the not-to-be-under-estimated effect of such pioneering efforts. Many of the great scientific and technological leaps came not just as a direct result of the space race, but because of those inspired by it.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I am completely stunned.. This is the sadest news i've heard in a long time..

What exactly would returning to the moon do to benefit mankind or the US Govt?
There is so much right here on the planet and below the surfaces of the oceans that we still know absolutely nothing about - we really should concentrate on understanding the Earth before we try to understand space. It's a hell of a lot cheaper too.

[Browncoat]

Xylob the Destroyer

Originally Posted by Browncoat
I am completely stunned.. This is the sadest news i've heard in a long time..



What exactly would returning to the moon do to benefit mankind or the US Govt?
There is so much right here on the planet and below the surfaces of the oceans that we still know absolutely nothing about - we really should concentrate on understanding the Earth before we try to understand space. It's a hell of a lot cheaper too

guns1inger said it very succinctly..

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I'm not buying it.

[guns1inger]

Stephen Hawking's View

[Xylob the Destroyer]

If the human race is to continue for another million years, we will have to boldly go where no one has gone before."

-Stephen Hawking
Like the bottom of our own oceans? Gee that Star Trek bullshit sounds cute in a sound bite from a 'super genius' but it's still bullshit.
I love sci-fi as much as the next nerd, but I still know what the 'fi' part means...
How can we possibly hope to understand anything we find out there when we still know practically nothing about our own planet?

I think we should concentrate on growing up before we even think about trying to conquer the stars. We can't even take care of or get along with ourselves.

The renowned University of Cambridge physicist has previously spoken in favour of colonising space as an insurance policy against the possibility of humanity being wiped out by catastrophes like nuclear war and climate change.

-the article you linked.
What a totally half assed bullshit approach. Instead of doing what we can to avoid such catastrophes (that we would totally be bringing on ourselves) let's waste our time trying to figure out what to do afterward.
You are ******* up. But don't stop ******* up! Keep doing shit wrong, we'll waste incalculable time and resources concentrate on a solution to your **** up.
Lunacy!

[guns1inger]

People won't stop screwing up. Look at the last climate change conference. People will not stop doing what they do, and they will not wind back progress. The prevailing view continues to be "leave it to the next guy".

However that does not make getting off this planet a waste of time or resources. Even if this was a paradise, it is still a sitting duck.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

People won't stop screwing up.

Absolutely not...

Look at the last climate change conference.

No thanks. I'm still sick from all that bullshit.

People will not stop doing what they do, and they will not wind back progress.

Not everybody's definition of progeress is the same.

The prevailing view continues to be "leave it to the next guy".

Sad but true.

However that does not make getting off this planet a waste of time or resources.

Why not get our shit together first?

Even if this was a paradise, it is still a sitting duck.

When (not if) Yellowstone blows we'll all be fucked anyway... That will be an extinction level event. Very few species will survive and the entire climate will be devastated for decades if not centuries.

BTW, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. Too many people fail to realize that their own point of view is NOT the only valid one.
I would jump at the opportunity to go into space. Sign me up!

[stiltman]

I'm not playing devil's advocate...I think it's a total waste of time and money for all this "Lets go to the moon again", Lets go to Mars" "Lets find some water here"

Total waste of freaking *government* money.
(Insert name or company name) want to go find something in space? You freaking pay for it yourself!

[JohnnyMalaria]

Gaia will heave a huge sigh of relief when we've destroyed ourselves. We are a selfish and destructive parasite.

Hawking is an über-academic and, like his kin, are totally detached from reality.

I agree with Xylob and stiltman. We care more about proving the existence of useless amounts of water on other planetary objects than understanding the more-than-abundant amounts on this planet. The cost of just one shuttle mission could pay for one trip to the deepest parts of our oceans every day for 100 years. Less people have been there than to the moon.

People confuse the advancement of science with power and glory.

[guns1inger]

There is no Gaia

[Forum Troll]

Would we gain any scientific or technological advantage if we return to the moon? Or would we go for purely nostalgic reasons, or just for pure politcal grandstanding?

[guns1inger]

The technological advantage is to build a station for launching deep space missions or missions to nearby planets. At the moment the majority of the fuel required to get a rocket into space is used just to breach the pull of the earth. Launching from outside the main gravitational pull of the earth allows for longer and more efficient space exploration.

And it gives us somewhere to store a large population of excess Sam Rockwells that are predicted to reach plague proportions over the next few decades

[JohnnyMalaria]

That doesn't add up. You still need to get all the materials to the moon in order to fabricate the spacecraft. That requires the same amount of energy. Or, you build the manufacturing facilities on the moon which requires getting all the construction materials from earth to the moon. Or you can extract the raw materials directly from the moon. Making steel requires tremendous resources including iron ore, limestone, oxygen, heat, water. Oxygen and water aren't exactly on hand and limestone requires CO2 to have formed in the first place. So either you build Detroit on the moon transport the essential raw materials from the earth or you build the spacecraft on earth. I think it's pretty obvious which requires less energy.

[menes777]

Would we gain any scientific or technological advantage if we return to the moon? Or would we go for purely nostalgic reasons, or just for pure politcal grandstanding?

Wasn't the Constellation project supposed to setup a habitat on the moon to practice for setting up the real thing on Mars? Like the practice before the big show?

[usually_quiet]

I'm old enough to have seen the live broadcast of the first moon landing (it was thrilling, even half-asleep), although I'm too young to remember Sputnik. Back in the day, most people thought the human race had the world by the tail and everything would keep getting better and better for everyone. Regrettably, we know better now. We have too many immediate problems to address to be funding manned missions off-planet. Unmanned missions are good enough.

[zzyzzx]

I could give a hoot that there's water on one of the moon's pole, when people are starving to death on earth.

Nothing that a little birth control can't solve.