Looks great on computer but crap through DVD

[pftjim]

I am rendering in Vegas 8 pro to a mpeg2 file and then burning to DVD. I have tried EVERYTHING, but for some reason, the video is getting screwed up after the burn process. It is fine after the render as it plays fine on the computer. But, after the burn process, it is horrible, jerky, pixelated, etc...

What am I doing wrong?

Now, here is the bizzaar thing: I have tried architect 4.5, nero vision, menu maker, movie factory and several more with the same results. BUT...for some weird reason, when I burn it with Cyberlink power2go, it burns fine. If I could get rid of the menu, and just get it to burn the video as a movie that plays right off the start, I would be good.

I know someone has got to know what is going on. I have spent over 35 hours on one 80 min DVD!

HELP~!

JIM

[guns1inger]

Can you post a sample of the problem. A few seconds should be enough.

It would also be good to know

What was the source ?
What encoding settings are you using ?
What media are you burning to ?

[redwudz]

How long does Cyberlink power2go take to burn the video to DVD? I suspect it's re-encoding if it takes more than 15 - 30 minutes to burn, and maybe messing it up. I would try ImgBurn just for the burning part. You should have a VIDEO_TS folder and probably a AUDIO_TS folder. They should burn as is, no re-encoding. If not, you've messed up some settings.

Vegas should be able to produce those two folders.

For making the main movie the first play item, that's done with the DVD authoring program. probably Vegas for you.

The last part of the equation is the brand of DVD media. Though, from your description, not likely your problem. Cheap media is more likely to fail towards the end of the burn.

[pftjim]

I am burning to DVD-R and have also tried +R. It makes no difference. I have tried every setting imaginable. it is not in the rendering as it looks perfect for final burn. It is the software that somehow is reencoding it wrong or I am messing up somewhere. I am simply rendering in Vegas 8 pro to a mpeg2 file and then importing it into the different burning programs. I am burning 25 sec clips for testing. Cyberlink is the only one that burns flawlessly, except for I can't find anyway to not have a menu. all the programs take a few minutes to burn the 20-25 sec clip. I believe that they are all re-encoding. I don't know how to get the VIDEO TS AND AUDIO TS folders. I am simply importing the mpeg2 file.

[edDV]

So you are using uncompressed source from a $50K camera?

[Nelson37]

1. You are screwing something up.

2. If you want to know exactly how you are screwing up, you will need to provide more information, as has been requested. source, encoding settings, you know, actual useful information.

3. You have NOT tried "every setting imaginable".

TYPE OF SOURCE, FRAMERATE, BITRATE, RESOLUTION, INTERLACE SETTINGS, REGION, Something that actually provides information instead of "Wah, Wah, it won't work, I tried everything, somebody fix it for me." Do you have any clue how freaking old that gets?

Now, just to provide you with a clue, since you obviously need one, for starters if your rendering settings are non-standard, the authoring program will re-encode. Also, surprise, surprise, if they aren't, it won't.

[Safesurfer]

My guess would be you are changing the field order in the MPEG2 encode, but it would be better if you didn't make everyone guess .

[pftjim]

Ok...here you go. I apologize for not being more specific. I just thought that someone would have heard of what is happening before. I cannot imagine that the settings are wrong, if it burns perfect with one program but not with another. But, then again, I know what happens every time I ASSume.

The media is Sony DVD-R. If I can figure out how to post a couple of clips, I will do so.

[Safesurfer]

So is your source a DV file?

[pftjim]

The workflow went as follows: The original source was created by a production company that I hired. They were using broadcast cams to tape. Then they captured the video and gave me both the raw footage on tape as well as on DVD. Because I did not have a tape deck for his larger tapes, it was easier to just rip the DVDs. The program I used to rip it, converted them to AVI files. I then dropped the files into Vegas and did my editing and then rendered with the settings that I have posted to a MPEG2 file.

Thanks.

[lordsmurf]

Gspot the input.

[pftjim]

Is this what you are looking for? I have never used that program before. I just downloaded it and put a sample clip as the source and this is what it spit out.

[Nelson37]

Not that familiar with MainConcept, but the first thing I would do would be to lower the max bitrate down to 8,000 and test. Brief spikes in bitrate would account for your symptoms. Somewhere around 8,500 to 9,000 should be safe but encoders vary.

Note here - saying the file is "OK after the render" should be modified to saying the file is "Ok ON THE COMPUTER after the render." PC is MUCH more tolerant of non-standard DVD files than a standalone, the PC does not care at all about DVD-standards and will totally ignore them.

Since your parameters look roughly correct, and your render produces a PC-valid video file, see below to confirm burner and media, look for something PC-good but DVD-bad.

Next would be to either check log files for the authoring program or just do the entire file and determine if it is being re-encoded or not.

Something else to check would be to just burn the MPG test files to DVD as a data disk, most standalones will play these and you could also playback the disk on the PC as a further test of the burner and media, without the authoring process muddying the waters.

[pftjim]

I will try a rerender with a lower bitrate. I'm not sure how to check the log files of the authoring program. I think you are referring to the VIDEO_TS and audio file folders. What do I look for when I find these folders. Also, I will try to burn as a data file and play it on my DVD and see what happens. Although, on the Cyberlink program, I accidently burned it as a data file and it turned out exactly like the other programs (Sony Architect, Nero, etc..) did when burning a video DVD. So, that thought is interesting to me. When I realized my mistake, I burned it as a video-DVD and it turned out fine. So, I wonder if the other programs are somehow recoding it as a data file or something.

[edDV]

First thing I would do is request to original camcorder files on a hard disk or USB jump drive. If SD, they are probably DV format (13GB/hr) which will work fine in Vegas.

[pftjim]

Lower bit rate didn't work.

[guns1inger]

Your average bitrate is very low, especially if the original was handheld DV, and has already been compressed once. It looks like you are just applying the standard render template without change. However I would still like to see a sample of the output. Pixelated could be the low bitrate (6k), but jerky could be a screw up in the field order because of the multiple encodings.

[lordsmurf]

I was looking mostly for the interlacing info from Gspot, and speculated the same as gunslinger did -- field order mismatch along the workflow.

[pftjim]

Is there anyway for me to find out the original field order? Would the production co know?

[edDV]

Is there anyway for me to find out the original field order? Would the production co know?

They would know. Also ask the original format (DV?) and the field order on the DVD.

Also get a copy of the camera original file and do it right. Why pay for a pro camera and use a second generation MPeg2 version?

If the original was DV, field order would be bottom field first and their DVD would probably be bottom field first. If so, your project setting and DVD encode should also be set to bottom field first.

[Nelson37]

If low bitrate was an issue, it would be pixelated on the PC as well, but apparently it is not.

As for the field order, you don't need to know the original order, though it would be helpful. There are only two choices, and you've already tried one. Try the other one.

Describe testing method for low bitrate files. Thought we had this lack of information problem dealt with. "it doesn't work" is remarkable unhelpful. We have already established that playback of the rendered MPG ON THE PC seems OK, and a complication that playback of rendered MPG as a data file is different from playback of rendered MPG as an authored DVD, on a standalone. SO HOW DID YOU TEST? Using MULTIPLE playback devices and observing results is a standard diagnostic technique for a very good reason.

The testing of disk playback of both authored DVD and MPG as data file, BOTH on a standalone AND on the PC may provide useful information.

[pftjim]

the original files were DV and I have matched the field order of Lower First. I didn't realize that I had to spell it out on how I tested the lower bitrate file. It seems quite obvious to me. I went into the settings and lowered the bitrate to a constant of 6,000,000 and reburned the file with the same results. and yes I tried it on several televisions.

I personally do not believe that it is in the rendering settings at all. If so, how can it burn perfect on one program and on the others it does not. The Cyberlink program must be reading it differently than the others, which is why it burns a clean copy. I just wish there was a way to know exactly what each program is doing to the files before it burns it.

[edDV]

You need to post samples so we can diagnose the issues. Field order needs to be set or confirmed in project settings, by clip (clip properties) and in encoder settings.

A field order issue will show up with increasing motion.

[pftjim]

I will work on that and upload a vid to youtube.

[pftjim]

here is the youtube link for one of the test samples. It plays fine on Youtube as well. it's gotta be in something that the burning program is doing. I cannot get a video sample that plays like it does through a dvd player.

[hech54]

I've read through this thread at least 3 times and I still have NOOOOOO idea what you are doing. You ripped a DVD to AVI?
Did you do just plain cuts or did you add filters to the video? I'm guessing Vegas doesn't accept MPEG2 as an input?(I don't use Vegas).
If you are doing plain cuts, Vegas(whether it accepts MPEG2 or not) is gross overkill. Several free editors can cut MPEG2 almost as accurately as uncompressed AVI and not re-encode the video.
You keep mentioning "perfect burn on one and not the other" program...without really saying
how you are going from the output file to DVD Video(no authoring program, details at all).
This is one of the most confusing threads I've seen in years.

[edDV]

That has been deinterlaced to 30p. Also shows heavy compression artifacts.

Vegas accepts MPeg2 but he should be working from the origial DV format files if he wants quality.

best I can understand his flow looks like this

DV-> MPeg2 DVD encode -> import MPeg2 to Vegas -> Encode MPeg2 DVD -> upload to You-Tube -> You-Tube deinterlaces and converts to flash.

[lordsmurf]

That Youtube video file looks like crap. The motion is butchered.

[Nelson37]

At least the Youtube file is not jerky, or pixelated.

Some suggestions.

Get a ripper that rips and does NOTHING ELSE. No conversion to AVI. Massive quality loss for no good reason.

Get an authoring program that authors and does NOTHING ELSE. No re-encoding. GuiForDVDAuthor would be one.

Get a burning program that burns and does NOTHING ELSE. Imgburn would be an excellent suggestion.

Best way to prevent a program from doing too much work is get one that is only capable of one job.

Next, test SINGLE STEPS, and BE SPECIFIC. Such as your low bitrate test. Are you aware you have not specified what type of playback device was used? You can output to a television from a PC, or from a DVD standalone. Nor have you tested the authored and burned disk on the PC, nor the authored files on the PC from the hard drive. Think triangulation. Come at the problem from multiple angles.

Specific like THIS - Convert file. Play on the PC. report results
Burn file to disk as simple MPG. Play on the PC. Report results.
Place same disk in standalone DVD player. Report results.
Author file, using GUIforDVDAuthor. Play on the PC, from the hard drive. Report results.
Burn authored file to disk. Play the disk on the PC. Report results.
Place authored disk in standalone. Play, Report results.

Take the same file through these steps. Step-by-step, one thing at a time. Don't tell me what's obvious, or what you believe. Just what was done, and what you saw.

Oh, and if you want to know what a particular program has done, that is what the log file is for. Most make one. Choosing your programs more carefully eliminates this problem.