From Camcorder to Yube

[LindaLou]

Video help Members,

I'd like to shoot some videos with a camcorder (that I have yet to buy) and put the videos on my website. I need the videos to load faster then they play so the videos don't stop to load again and again. My goal is to figure out what file type in a camcorder I will need to be able to use the fastest file type in a video editor, so I can put the video online and on Youtube in a way that allows the video to play to the end without being stopped. Any help appreciated.

Is it true that basically all camcorders use MPEG1 and thqt after shooting the video, I would use a converter to convert the camcorder file to .wmv, or .rm, or etc. then edit the converted file with a video editor, then upload it to my site (with a video player) and if I want upload it to Youtube (but which file types does Youtube accept)?

Thanks,

LindaLou

[aedipuss]

first you need to know the bandwidth of your web server. then you can start to plan what type of video to use.

[LindaLou]

Aedipuss,
The bandwidth is a few gigabytes an hour, according to my webhost. Of course if I put the videos on blip.tv it may or may not be more.

Wouldn't the available bandwidth on Youtube for each video be the same, yet some videos play without stopping and others stop to load constantly.

Thanks,

Linda

[aedipuss]

the upload speed of your webhost will determine how much quality you can put into your videos. an ok 1280x720p stream needs at least 1000kbps(1 mbps) per person trying to view it. smaller size video can get by with decreasing amounts of upload speed.

youtube can run out of bandwidth just like any other host. at busy times things can bog down.

[LindaLou]

Aedipuss,

Are you saying different file types perform differently under different bandwidth levels? Or are you sayig filetype has no influence on whether a video can download faster than it plays.


Linda

[lowellriggsiam]

Aedipuss,

Are you saying different file types perform differently under different bandwidth levels? Or are you sayig filetype has no influence on whether a video can download faster than it plays.


Linda

What he is saying is that the larger the file is the larger the amount of bandwidth is required. When you watch anything on the internet the video feed is being downloaded, so the best quality files would also be bigger and since they are bigger for quality sakes and they need to be downloaded the needed bandwidth can become emense.

[guns1inger]

Is it true that basically all camcorders use MPEG1

Almost no cameras use mpeg-1. Most older cameras use DV or SD Mpeg-2. Many still cameras use MJPEG inside either an AVI or MOV container. HD cameras use either H264 or HD Mpeg-2 (most the former).

All of this will influence the speed at which you can edit, and the ease with which you can work with your footage.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,
What are the common file types standard definition camcorders use?

Thanks,

Linda

[guns1inger]

DV or Mpeg-2

[aedipuss]

Aedipuss,

Are you saying different file types perform differently under different bandwidth levels? Or are you sayig filetype has no influence on whether a video can download faster than it plays.


Linda

What he is saying is that the larger the file is the larger the amount of bandwidth is required. When you watch anything on the internet the video feed is being downloaded, so the best quality files would also be bigger and since they are bigger for quality sakes and they need to be downloaded the needed bandwidth can become emense.

not true. actual filesize makes no difference in the amount of upload speed a server needs. it is determined by the bitrate of the video. high bitrate, high quality video needs more upload speed. the file type of online video doesn't make any difference. the most commonly used types are .flv and .mp4 . to get them to stream before fully downloading the encoder needs to put certain information at the beginning of the file.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,

Thanks for that information.

If I want to create, edit, and place a video online, Isn't it true that, in general, once the DV/MPEG-2 file is made in the camcorder, the file has to be moved to a video editor? If so, do most good quality, popular video editors work on DV and or MPEG-2 files, or do you have to change DV/MPEG-2 file types to another file type (ie .WMV).


Thanks,

Linda

[lowellriggsiam]

That was to extent of my intention to say. Depends on how you read it. I simply did not state bitrate. I do thank you for the correction aedi.

[guns1inger]

Different editors work best with different types of footage. Some work best with DV, others are specifically designed to edit mpeg-2 footage. Choose the camera, then choose the editor.

Some types of compression are better for repeated editing than others, especially if the editing involves transitions, overlays and other processing. DV is the best SD type for this type of work. Mpeg-2 is already heavily compressed and quickly degrades with repeated compression. It it therefore best for editing that involves only simple cuts, using an editor that won't re-encode untouched footage.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,

If I decide on a video editor that works on DN and or MPEG-2, does that mean those other file types (e.g. .wmv, .wma, .mov, .rm) are avoided/never involved in putting the video online?

Also, do I need to use certain file types to get my video on Youtube?

Thanks Gunslinger,

Linda

[guns1inger]

Most of the video types you are describing a) don't come from cameras, and b) are not designed to be edited or re-compressed. You may get some editors to accept some of them. Most will have to be converted to a more edit friendly format first. Personally, I would never use RM footage in a video - it is crap to start with and horrible to work with. WMV footage, if it was very high quality, and some MOV formats are OK. WMA is audio. Depending on how it was created, it often has M$'s DRM in it and isn't usable outside of media player.

You want to do the least amount of conversion necessary. You would never, for example, convert DV to rm or WMV then to something else in order to edit it. You would edit the DV footage, output it in a format required for whatever you are using it for, and be done with it. Every time you re-encode footage using a lossy method (and mpeg-2, rm and WMV are very lossy), you reduce the quality of the footage. Sometimes substantially.

Using Youtube and an example - shoot in DV. Transfer to your PC as DV avi (no conversion). Edit in DV. Output as Youtube ready mp4. Upload to youtube. Minimal quality loss.

If you really want something small and simple, look at one of the Flip cameras. They come with all the software to do simple edits and upload to youtube. There are SD and HD models, and plenty of youtube videos telling you how to use them. Just point, shoot, then plug it into a USB port and edit.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,
Thanks a bunch for the help.

When you say, "You would never, for example, convert DV to rm.." So I would search for a DV (or MPEG-2) video editor Right?


My guess is that camcorders don't record in .wmv, .mov, .rm, etc. What situation are these file types designed for.

Thanks again,

Linda

[guns1inger]

Like flv (flash video), formats like RM (Real Media), and highly compressed WMV and MOV files are for online playback, where you get a reasonable (sometimes) compromise between filesize (and therefore bandwidth) and playback quality. This is achieved by using compression that looks across multiple frames, which is efficient for playback, but makes editing more difficult.

Mpeg-2 also uses this type of compression, but is aimed at higher quality than flv/rm etc.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,

I plan on putting my video online. I'd like my video to load faster than it plays to prevent my online video from having to stop during playing to load. Would this require converting (reencoding) my camcorder DV or MPEG-2 to wmv, flv, or mov, etc.?

Thanks,

Linda

[guns1inger]

Where are you storing them ? Your own server, or somewhere like youtube ?

If it is your won server, you will encode it to whatever your server is configured to serve. Only you know what this is.

If it is going to be hosted elsewhere, you will have to look at what they recommend. Most will re-encode to whatever they need if you don't give it to them in the correct format. You need to minimise this where possible, as every time the video is compressed using lossy compression, more data is thrown away, and more quality is lost.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,

I can store it on my webhost's server, but My webhost said videos are a big drain and that I should store put the videos elswere. I thought of Youtube and heard about blip.tv. So would you say Youtube is a good place to store videos (seems like it would b.)? Do you know what format Youtube uses? I'll ask blip.tv what format they use. Do you have any better suggstions?

Thanks Gunslinger,

Linda

[porfitron]

I like storing video on www.Blip.tv, because not only does it convert them play in their Flash player, but it also preserves a link to the file in it's ORIGINAL FORMAT. You're able to download the file in the full quality as you uploaded it, or even use the link in an embed tag. For example, I post DivX and MKV files on Blip.tv, and then embed them on my own sites using the DivX Plus Web Player's code generator:
http://labs.divx.com/WebPlayerCodeGenerator

It's nice because you can embed or point people to the Flash versions if you're worried about their connection speed, or you can embed with the DivX Plus Web Player if you want to present it in HD quality.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger, Porfitron,
I think I have a better understanding after a break and a couple of rereads. Thanks for the help. I'll probably ask your opinion on specs of a few camcorders I saw next week. I know one thing, optical zoom is important - some have great range, others almost none.

Thanks,

Linda

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,
You were saying, "Using Youtube as an example - shoot in DV. Transfer to your PC as DV avi (no conversion). Edit in DV. Output as Youtube ready mp4. Upload to youtube. Minimal quality loss."

But I think I'll go with MPEG-2, because I don't think I'll get involved in repeated editing that involves transitions, overlays and other processing. On the other hand, one camcorder I like lists the video format as "SD (MPEG-2)" Click the "specifications" tab on this site to see "SD (MPEG-2)" near the bottom.
http://www.camcor.com/cgi-bin/cat/id=1234900895/Sony_DCRSR47_60_GB_Hard_Drive_Camcorder.html

Does that mean this camcorder can handle both SD and MPEG-2 video formats?

Thanks,

Linda

[guns1inger]

SD in this instance means Standard Definition, which just means that it works at 720 x 480 resolution, and uses mpeg-2 for compressing the video.

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,
Staying on, "Using Youtube as an example - shoot in DV. Transfer to your PC as DV avi (no conversion). Edit in DV. Output as Youtube ready mp4. Upload to youtube. Minimal quality loss."

I haven't found any camcorders using DV video format. Is DV any more of a factor in how fast a video loads and plays than MPEG-2 if I edit DV only to the same extent one can edit MPEG-2?


If I choose MPEG-2: Would I, using Youtube as an example, shoot in MPEG-2, transfer to my PC as MPEG-2 avi, edit in MPEG-2 and output as Youtube ready mp4. Upload to youtube for minimal quality loss?


Thanks,

Linda

[LindaLou]

Gunslinger,
I read that DV is a form of tape. I'd rather use a camcorder that uses the MPEG-2 video format.

So if I choose MPEG-2, using Youtube as an example, would I shoot in MPEG-2, transfer to my PC and convery the MPEG-2 file to the AVI video file format, then edit in AVI, then output as Youtube ready mp4. Would that minimal quality loss?
http://www.filetrial.com/convert/mpeg-2toavi.html

Thanks,

Linda