DVD ripping goes legit with RealDVD

[drjtech]

DVD ripping goes legit with RealDVD

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10034540-1.html

RealNetworks will soon let users rip DVDs to their hard drives--legally. The company will be unveiling the RealDVD software at Monday's DEMOfall conference in San Diego, but CNET got an early look at the software. Our hands-on impressions follow:

Operation is simple and straightforward. Once the RealDVD software is installed, just pop a DVD into your PC, and the program will copy the entire disc to your hard disk. Depending on the read speed of your computer's DVD drive, the operation will probably take 15-20 minutes (for dual-layer discs that house 7 to 8.5GB of data). You can copy as many as your hard drive will hold, and the program's browsing screen gives you the cover art and relevant metadata (cover art, stars, directors, plot summaries, ratings).

Whether you're at 37,000 feet or you're accessing the program on a home theater PC hooked up to your TV, you need only click on the movie you want to watch, and it'll start straight away. (We say "movie," but RealDVD works just as well for TV shows on DVD as well.) The files are uncompressed, and include everything on the disc--all the extras, and all of the surround sound and alternate audio tracks. Videos can only be watched in the program's built-in software player, but you can toggle to full-screen viewing, and videos autoresume wherever you last left off.

Savvy PC users will ask, "What's the big deal? I've been ripping DVDs to my PC's hard drive for years." Fair enough, but RealDVD adds some relevant bullet points to the equation. First off, it's legal: That's because the program retains the DVD copy-protection, and even adds a further layer of DRM to the files. (Real is standing on the precedent set by the Kaleidescape's 2007 court victory.) So you shouldn't have to sweat a prison term for copyright violation next time you're toting your laptop through airport security. Secondly, it's transportable: you can rip the discs to an external USB hard drive and watch them on up to 4 other PCs on which you've installed the program. (OK, you can do this and more with underground DVD rippers, but the point is that RealDVD is offering a reasonable degree of viewing flexibility, instead of locking the movies onto just one computer.) And thirdly, the software is easy to install and use--anyone familiar with, say, iTunes should have no problem ripping DVDs with RealDVD.

RealDVD is a completely standalone program--it's not integrated with or related to the company's RealPlayer software or Rhapsody subscription music service. It will cost $40-50 (the software will be available as a download and, later, as a shrinkwrapped offering), but Real will be offering it at an introductory price of $30 for a limited time. Additional licenses (for watching movies ripped to your external hard drive on up to 4 other computers you own) will be $20 a pop. It's Windows only right now, but Real says it's looking into a Mac version as well.

In case you're wondering how RealDVD verifies that you're ripping DVDs that you legally own, the answer is: it doesn't. Effectively, you're on the honor system. Aside from an admonition on the splash screen that reminds you to not rip discs you don't own, there's nothing preventing you from archiving DVDs you borrow or rent.

Is it worth the price? During our quick hands-on shakedown cruise with a beta version of RealDVD, we found that it mostly lived up to Real's billing, but it wasn't without issues. For instance, the software didn't seem to find the cover art for many recent movies. And we noted that it can only import copy-protected DVDs--if you've got a disc that's DRM-free, it assumes it's an illegitimate copy, and refuses to import it. (We assume the first issue is just a reflection of the software's pre-release beta status, but the latter seems to be an intended "feature.") Still, for frequent travelers or those looking to backup or share their movie collection throughout the household, it looks to be a feasible option--and the price is certainly low enough to hit impulse buy territory.

Of course, if Real can extend and expand RealDVD as a standardized platform, things could get a lot more interesting. Imagine RealDVD-certified set-top boxes, game consoles, or TVs, where you could just plug in a USB hard drive that houses the bulk of your movie collection and have instant access. Or RealDVD-compatible portable devices, onto which you could drag and drop movies to watch on the go. Those are the sort of features that could make RealDVD into a must-have product. Of course, if this it catches on, RealDVD might just be the first of a series of legal DVD ripping products to hit the market as well.

What do you think: would you pay for RealDVD, or are you happy to stick with free (albeit legally questionable) DVD-ripping software found on the Internet? If you're intrigued by RealDVD, what other features would you like to see the software offer? Share your reactions below.

-drjtech

[Baldrick]

even adds a further layer of DRM to the files.

[disturbed1]

I wouldn't call this DVD Ripping, it's more along the lines of DVD Storage.

Throw in some compression, and they might be on to something. Nothing I'd (or 99% of the people here) would buy. Hard drive space is cheap and all, but that doesn't make sense.

Have the application compress the DVD to Real format, and include tools for a media server to allow streaming to any network enabled device, and they'd have a good product. Store a bunch of movies on a single media server, Mom can stream to her PC, Dad to his notebook, and JR to his PSP. Similar to what most people have setup with other media centers, but this would make is easy for Joe Blow to setup and run.

[Danno100]

I'd buy it if it worked with Vista Media Center and also on V2 extenders. I just want a legitimate way to view movies I own on my home network.

[SingSing]

I'd buy it if it worked with Vista Media Center and also on V2 extenders. I just want a legitimate way to view movies I own on my home network.

You got the point, what this product is for.

Develop this type of product is like playing Russian roulette. The movie studios will all react differently, and some law suits are ensured.

[raffie]

Now that's one piece of software we know isn't going to be pirated xD

[jman98]

Real may be relying on the Kaleidoscope victory, but they seem to be forgetting that a few years earlier, 123 Studios lost a similar court case and their product also preserved DRM. 123 Studios went out of business as a result. All bets are off as the courts have been woefully inconsistent on the subject and all the MPAA has to do is take their chances in the right court to get a favorable ruling. However, for all we know Real has secretly reached a deal with the MPAA over this. Since it doesn't allow burning, that would satisfy the MPAA and I could believe that for the right money they'd secretly agree not to sue.

This kind of product is for lazy and/or stupid people who are too lazy/stupid to learn how to use DVDFab HD Decrypter but want to maintain a large disk based library of movies.

[ViRaL1]

Real may be relying on the Kaleidoscope victory, but they seem to be forgetting that a few years earlier, 123 Studios lost a similar court case and their product also preserved DRM. 123 Studios went out of business as a result. All bets are off as the courts have been woefully inconsistent on the subject and all the MPAA has to do is take their chances in the right court to get a favorable ruling. However, for all we know Real has secretly reached a deal with the MPAA over this. Since it doesn't allow burning, that would satisfy the MPAA and I could believe that for the right money they'd secretly agree not to sue.

This kind of product is for lazy and/or stupid people who are too lazy/stupid to learn how to use DVDFab HD Decrypter but want to maintain a large disk based library of movies.

321 Studios software preserved the DRM? Which software is that?
Not being sarastic, but I don't remember that being in DVD X Copy if that's what you mean. There was a 'digital signature' that allowed them to tell where it was ripped so to speak, and you got the 321 screen before each movie (easily defeated), but that's all I remember.

[lgh529]

I wonder if their software will contain the same level of spyware that RealPlayer has?

[OleTexCajun]

Ho-hummm....yawn....about as interesting as the dumb question about whether Microsoft should seriously go into the hardware business "big time"....http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=529....har,har,har....zzzzzz....

[ViRaL1]

Ho-hummm....yawn....about as interesting as the dumb question about whether Microsoft should seriously go into the hardware business "big time"....http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=529....har,har,har....zzzzzz....

Luckily enough, your valuable input has been able to turn the entire thread around into something lively and enlightening.

Bravo!

[drjtech]

Wired has some more background information and industry reaction:

Hollywood Control of DVD-Copying at Crossroads

RealNetworks is relying on the ruling in the Kaleidescape case as part of their business plan. That case is currently under appeal. An unfavorable ruling could kill both Kaleidescape and RealDVD.

-drjtech

[ron spencer]

why would anyone use this?

[drjtech]

why would anyone use this?

Many people only know and buy the software they see in boxes at Walmart, Best Buy, etc. I doubt anyone who frequents ViDEOHelp would buy RealDVD, but you'd be surprised at how many other people there are out there.

On the plus side, RealMedia may have the resources to fight back against the MPAA. Then again, they may go down like 123Studios.

-drjtech

[gll99]

why would anyone use this?

Because in the USA and soon under Canada's New Conservative government's likely to be re-introduced copyright bill known as the Harper / Prentice tough on hard criminals legislation, it is against the law to break the encryption on DVD (maybe the plastic seal wrapper too). In the USA the fine is about $5000 but in Canada due to intense Hollowoodheads lobbying it will be $20,000.

As I understand it, the "fair use" provision allows backing up a purchased DVD but only if you don't break the encryption. So along comes this company who says "We will keep you legal by allowing you to make a backup copy to your hdd with a program that transfers the encryption data with the video" so we meet the requirements of the current law by allowing you to copy without breaking the encryption.

I' m betting on quick industry lobbying a bit more palm grease and the laws get amended before this tool has a chance to take root.

[raffie]

why would anyone use this?

Because in the USA and soon under Canada's New Conservative government's likely to be re-introduced copyright bill known as the Harper / Prentice tough on hard criminals legislation, it is against the law to break the encryption on DVD (maybe the plastic seal wrapper too).

Nah, not because of that

why would anyone use this?

Many people only know and buy the software they see in boxes at Walmart, Best Buy, etc. I doubt anyone who frequents ViDEOHelp would buy RealDVD, but you'd be surprised at how many other people there are out there.

He hit the nail on the head. Ive worked in a small electronics store as a salesman, and trust me when I say half the profit made there is because of peoples ignorance. You dont think every1 is as knowledgable about these things as we videohelp frequenters are? And peoples ignorance is something that can be profited on. This is exactly the tactic that keeps companies like Real alive.

[PhoneMatt]

Not to go too far off topic, but Ive just gotten an email from Nero. They are releasing software on Tuesday (or at least announcing it- they weren't too clear), that they say " gives you the freedom to enjoy Your Music, Your Videos, Your Photos and Your TV Shows Anytime, Anywhere, On Any Device. "
Now, this is the release of 2 pieces of software, from major software places, that makes life a little easier for the average person. Has there been some major change in the thinking of the major studios? Have they come to their collective senses and realized that there is money to be made by letting people use their own property the way that they want to? Should I be listening for the sounds of ice skate blades being sharpened in Hell?
I normally don't bother with the Nero site, but I am going to take a look on Tuesday.

[ViRaL1]

30-day Free Trial available now.

$29.99 introductory price.
$49.99 regular price.

http://www.realdvd.com/

[stiltman]

Real files Pre-emptive Lawsuit
http://www.realnetworks.com/company/press/releases/2008/realdvd_litigation.html

[PhoneMatt]

Hoo, boy!! Corporate mud wrestling! Pass me that beer, son, this is better than Pay-Per-View.

[drjtech]

And now the studios have filed their suite:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/technology/01film.html?ref=business

Studios Sue to Bar a DVD Copying Program

Six major movie studios sued RealNetworks, the Seattle-based digital media company, on Tuesday over its new $30 software program that allows people to make digital copies of their DVDs.

As the opening warning on every DVD indicates, Hollywood has bitterly opposed such copying. The studios have argued that it threatens their emerging business of digital downloads and can motivate buyers to rent, copy and return DVDs instead of buying them.

RealNetworks, the company behind RealPlayer software and the Rhapsody music subscription service, said RealDVD gives users the freedom to do things like make backup copies of favorite discs or take movies along on a laptop while traveling. It has argued that RealDVD is now legal because of a favorable decision last year in a case against Kaleidescape, a Silicon Valley-based manufacturer of high-end media servers.

RealNetworks also said that RealDVD conforms to Hollywood’s rules on DVD protection by encrypting the digital copies, which prevents unlawful online file sharing.

“We are disappointed that the movie industry is following in the footsteps of the music industry and trying to shut down advances in technology, rather than embracing changes that provide consumers with more value and flexibility for their purchases,” RealNetworks said in a statement Tuesday.

For their part, the studios argued in legal filings that the software violates the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act because it bypasses the anticopying mechanism built into DVDs.

“RealDVD should be called StealDVD,” Greg Goeckner, executive vice president and general counsel for the Motion Picture Association of America, said. “RealNetworks knows its product violates the law, and undermines the hard-won trust that has been growing between America’s moviemakers and the technology community.”

Paramount Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox, Universal Studios, Warner Brothers, Columbia Pictures, the Walt Disney Company and Sony are suing RealNetworks in United States District Court in Los Angeles, seeking an injunction that would prevent the company from selling the software.

Also on Tuesday, RealNetworks countersued the studios in federal court in San Francisco, asking a judge to find that the program does not violate Hollywood’s DVD license.

[drjtech]

Judge halts sales of RealDVD

Judge halts sales of RealDVD

A judge has ordered RealNetworks to suspend the sale of RealDVD, the controversial software that hands users the ability to copy and store films to a hard drive, according to a report published by NewTeeVee.com, a technology-news blog.

The film industry sought to prevent sales of RealDVD last week when it filed a lawsuit against RealNetworks. The Motion Picture Association of America accused Real of violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and breach of contract.

According the story on NewTeeVee, the court wants sales to cease until Tuesday, when it has reviewed all the papers involved in the case. On Sunday evening, the RealDVD site notified visitors that because of the legal action taken by Hollywood, RealDVD was unavailable.

"Rest assure we will work diligently to provide you with software that allows you to make a legal copy of your DVDs," the post read.

Representatives from the MPAA and RealNetworks could not be reached Sunday.

-drjtech

[stiltman]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10060481-93.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0

RealNetworks on Tuesday failed to convince a district judge to lift a restraining order and allow the company to start selling RealDVD again until she learns from experts, including the court's, how the software functions.

That means RealDVD, which enables users to copy a DVD and store it on their hard drive, is unlikely to reappear in the marketplace for at least another month and perhaps longer. U.S. District Judge Marilyn Patel indicated she wouldn't be available for another hearing until after Nov. 17.

"I am extending the temporary restraining order because I'm not satisfied in the fact that this technology is not in violation," Patel said following the three-hour hearing. "There are serious questions about copyright violations. There are questions about violations of the (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), and violations of these companies' agreement."

[MOVIEGEEK]

I doubt RealDVD will be back,the same thing happened to 321 Studios.

[drjtech]

RealNetworks Loses DVD Copying Decision

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351471,00.asp

RealNetworks Loses DVD Copying Decision
Company Hasn't Said It Will Appeal

08.11.09

by Mark Hachman
A federal judge has ruled in favor of Hollywood and against RealNetworks, declaring that the company's RealDVD program violates the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the terms of the DVD CSS license.

A preliminary injunction barring RealDVD from store shelves will remain in place, Judge Marilyn Hall Patel said, and the DVD CCA will also be entitled to injunctive relief. "The RealDVD products, by their very nature, open a veritable Pandora's box of liability for Real," the judge wrote.

The decision marks the end of a trial that pitted Real against the DVD Copy Control Association and an array of Hollywood studios, beginning in April and with closing arguments wrapping up in May. At issue was both RealDVD and Facet, a set-top box designed to allow consumers to rip DVDs to a hard drive.

RealNetworks did not immediately say that the company planned to appeal. "We are disappointed that a preliminary injunction has been placed on the sale of RealDVD," the company said in a statement. "We have just received the Judge's detailed ruling and are reviewing it. After we have done so fully, we'll determine our course of action and will have more to say at that time."

Though most expected RealNetworks to lose its bid to overturn the injunction, Judge Patel also took the most basic arguments of the DVD CCA and the Hollywood studios at face value.

Early in her ruling, for example, she cited the restrictions against copying DVDs that are contained in the DVD CCA's General Specifications of the CSS license, the digital-rights-management scheme used by DVDs: "[CSS] is intended to prevent casual users from the unauthorized copying of copyrighted materials recorded on DVD-Video/Audio Discs". That authorization, she ruled, can only come from the copyright holders themselves, or the studios.

The crux of the judge's argument, however, was that RealNetworks knew that there were anti-copying restrictions and technologies that were used by the studios, and that the company actively worked to overcome them.

Real's actions only violated the CSS contract itself, Judge Patel wrote, but also the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA. Judge Patel's conclusion on the DMCA aspect was quickly arrived at: "RealDVD products are designed primarily for circumvention of that [CSS] technology, as Real has admitted its intent upon initial development was to create a software product that copies DVDs to computer hard drives so that the user does not need the physical DVD to watch the content."

To begin with, Judge Patel ruled that RealNetworks knew the scope of the documents it signed and breached that contract. "Real did not elect to return (or destroy, with appropriate certification) the CSS General Specifications after it received them, as Real had a right to do under the agreement... This behavior indicates that Real understood it to be bound by the CSS General Specifications as well as the other technical specifications received after execution of the CSS License Agreement," she wrote.

The judge also found that Real did not maintain certain anti-copying restrictions that the CSS contract required, namely DVD drive-locking, secure storage of keys on a DVD, CSS authentication or CSS bus encryption - which Real's own expert witness, Matthew Bishop, acknowledged. Judge Patel closed the courtroom during Bishop's testimony.

And by playing back a DVD from a hard drive, the judge wrote, "it does so by circumventing CSS technology and violating the access-control provision of the DMCA." While performing the required CSS steps to rip a DVD was in compliance with the agreement, "once is not enough," Patel wrote.

The fact that the CSS technology has been hacked and deconstructed did not affect Patel, who found that it still protects DVD from copying by the average consumer.

Judge Patel reserved her strongest criticisms for RealNetworks' attempts to circumvent ARccOS and RipGuard, two third-party technologies that interjected deliberate, imperceptible errors into DVDs to impede copying. The judge found that RealNetworks consciously tried to circumvent those protections, which violated a statute of the DMCA.

"By taking the position it has with regard to the effectiveness of ARccOS and RipGuard as technological measures, i.e., that software (like DVD Walk) can be created to avoid ARccOS and RipGuard errors, Real has walked right into admitting its own liability under section 1201(b)," Judge Patel wrote.

As for fair use, the judge noted that the DMCA doesn't expressly forbid backing up content, just the tools those backups use.

MPAA chief executive Dan Glickman expressed pleasure with the outcome. "We are very pleased with the court's decision," he said in a statement, as relayed by a spokeswoman. "This is a victory for the creators and producers of motion pictures and television shows and for the rule of law in our digital economy. Judge Patel's ruling affirms what we have known all along: RealNetworks took a license to build a DVD-player and instead made an illegal DVD-copier. Throughout the development of RealDVD, RealNetworks demonstrated that it was willing to break the law at the expense of those who create entertainment content."

"The DVD-CCA is grateful for Judge Patel's thorough review and thoughtful decision in this matter," added Reginald Steer of Akin Gump, and counsel for the DVD CCA. "The association, which represents the interests of the personal computer, consumer electronics and content industries as well as DVD consumers, is committed to enabling high quality entertainment to be available for use at home and elsewhere. The ability to make that entertainment available depends upon a set of guidelines upon which all participants in these industries can rely."

The RealNetworks ruling may have a bearing on the related Kaleidescape case, a ruling which initially favored the company in its trial versus the DVD CCA but is currently being heard on appeal. However, Judge Patel also dismissed Real's relationship to the Kaleidescape ruling, characterizing it as a different case with different players.

[videonewstoday]

Has anyone heard any news on exactly what happen in the court case for realdvd as of late?

[drjtech]

RealNetworks appeals RealDVD ruling

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/19832.cfm

The appeal trial is set to start November 9th and should garner big media attention.

-drjtech

[JohnnyBob]

I wouldn't consider buying it as long as DVD Shrink, DVD Decrypter, RipIt4Me, FixVTS, DVDFab HD Decrypter, etc continue to work fine to rip DVD movies and then Imgburn burns them to discs flawlessly, unencoded, unprotected. That's the most versatile method! Why pay for something that costs money, is less versatile, and adds its own proprietary disc/copy/load/play protection scheme No way, Jose Let the lawyers argue about the legalities/illegalities til doomsday, I could care less.

[drjtech]

RealDVD copying software dies in $4.5-million settlement

A year-and-a-half after it first tried to sell an application allowing users to copy DVDs onto a computer hard drive, Real Networks is paying the major studios $4.5 million to end the legal headache it caused.


The Seattle-based digital media company has also agreed to a permanent injunction barring it from selling the RealDVD software.

Looks like this is the closing chapter for RealDVD.

-drjtech