Pixar 3-D Blu-Ray

[orfajackson]

I just saw the new Pixar / Disney Movie UP at my local theatre.

I was blown away by the 3-D effects! The glasses they handed out were grey - not the red and blue as with all the prior 3D movies. The 3-D was extraordinary and together with the high definition filming a significant step forward in movie realism. It works.

QUESTION: Has anyone heard anything about Pixar / Disney releasing Blu -Ray DVDs encoded with this 3-D? Would I need a special Blu-Ray player? Would I need a special Flat Screen that has electonics (or software) to reproduce the 3-D?

Thank you, guys

little orfa jackson

[guns1inger]

The 3D used in many theatres is based on polarised glasses, and not the old style anaglyph (red/blue or cyan/magenta) 3D. This is good for consumers because the quality is far superior, but it is not a technology that can be used on standard television sets. 3D is obviously the next big thing, with many major 3D releases rolling out already, and over the next 2 years.

UP is probably the first of the credible movies to roll out in this format (Journey to the Centre of the Earth, Land of the Lost and Monsters vs Aliens are all 2 - 2.5 star gimmick films with no real substance when the 3D is removed), with James Cameron's Avatar being the most anticipated. There is also talk of 3D re-released of the LOTR trilogy, amongst others.

So obviously the studios are heavily backing the process (although they are screwing theatre owners in the process, at least in the USA). Because of this, there has been talk of adding a 3D component to the BluRay specification (BD3.0 ?), however this is not without issues. The biggest hurdle is hardware.

Current television technology cannot support polarised lens 3D. Although several companies showed samples of, or announced, 3D television tech at E3, none of it is ready, and it is big ask to expect consumers who have just upgraded to HD to upgrade again to support 3D.

The next best technology is the IMAX shatter based glasses, and this is the easiest to implement. The PS3 could support it today with a firmware update and a suitable USB adapter. Future BD players could have the same tech built in. Replacing your player is generally cheaper than replacing your TV. A less refined version of this tech came out for PCs several years ago, but never really took off.

So at this stage, expect UP to have the same type of 3D release as all the recent films - crappy cardboard 3D glasses and a very mediocre in-home 3D experience - and hope the BD standard incorporates 3D support sooner rather than later.

Caveat : I would not expect a decision to be made on this until after Avatar is released. The budget for this film is huge, and the returns will have to match Titanic to make it all viable. However if it is a 3D success, I suspect it will the force that drives better 3D technology into the hands of consumers.

[orfajackson]

Thank you, guns1inger

little orfa jackson

[Cornucopia]

orfajackson,
1st off, I need to clarify something you stated: Anaglyph (Red/Blue-Cyan) 3D presentation in the theatres has ALWAYS been more of the exception than the rule. More common in the past has been Polarized (usually Linearly) glasses fed by either an over/under-modified strip or dualstrip-duallens single projector or dualstrip-dual projectors, with a non-depolarizing SILVER screen (not the usual white). This was common even back in the 50's with the 1st "Golden Era of 3D" and Creature from the Black Lagoon, House of Wax, and Dial "M" for Murder (which I've seen all as Polarized). The whole Red/Blue thing is more from the 80's revival ("Comin' at Ya", "Jaws3D", "Amityville3D", etc) which is one reason why it didn't take off again.

What you saw was a RealD projection system, which is a combination of Active (LCD shutter type) and Passive (Polarized-Circularly). The Active Part is a filter element placed in front of a single projector that switches circular polarity with the change of eye-perspective. The screen is once again required to be silver. The glasses are Passive circular polarized, which alternate their correspondence with the polarization of the incoming image. And it's all done with a super-speed 2k or 4k digital projector (24fps x 2 eyes x 3-tripleflash = 144fps)! That way, it's so quick you should never notice the flicker.

Anyway, back to your questions...

Can you get this at home?.....Not exactly.

The high-end projectors (that are affordable) that consumers can get right now max out at ~1280x800 at 120fps, possibly 1080p at 100fps, and the Z-screen (that active filter element I mentioned) is currently seems ONLY available to corporations/producers/theatres. That's probably by design...

There are a number of competing models for 3D in the home, some work for display only, some work for broadcast/ota/sat, some work with vod/web, some work for storage-based media (disc, flash, hd).
NONE work exactly the same way. NONE are universal. ...and here's the kicker...
While corporations are vying to be top dog with their technology and trying to make it an end-to-end system, it actually could happen that 3D could be available RIGHT NOW, if they'd just embrace and UMBRELLA (or BIG TENT) approach, where they use the power of the computer to translate from one technology to another when they hand of the data from disc-to-server-to-broadcast tower-to-receiver-to-display, etc. A good example of this is an app called Stereoscopic Player at http//:www.3dtv.at. Lots of varieties of methods to choose to come in, lots to choose for going out. It would be no great matter to put a version similar to this on a chip!

>>>>>>>>>>
edit: while I left to go install Linux on my son's PS3, and then slept, I left this post unfinished and came back to find someone had beaten me to it, but I've got a few thing to add still...
>>>>>>>>>>

For 3D on a DVD or BluRay, you can always get anaglyph but who wants that. Consumer 3D will go nowhere if that's all its given as an option. I'm embarrassed that the studios are even putting out this crap this way, but they wanna make a buck, and people are hungry for it. Plus, analgyph isn't completely worthless--witness Spy Kid3D and SharkBoy/LavaGirl. Money-makers and still kinda watchable, even with the friggin' Red/Cyan glasses (BTW, you can always get a NICE pair from online to make your experience a good deal better).

Ok, so ruling out anaglyph, what's left?...It comes down to ~3 or 4 technologies (for DVD/BR) that DON'T ruin compatibility with the current technology.
A. Add simple 2nd perspective image encoded much as normal, but both streams muxed into a MULTI-ANGLE disc. Then sell modified players that support reading the disc in a new manner, one that maps multiple angles to multiple display paths.
B. Add the 2nd perspective and encode both using MPG2 with long-contested and simmering "Multi-view profile". Then build new players that can read this format and map the output to multiple display paths.
C. Add the 2nd perspective and encode both using a combination of Sum/Difference (or 2D+Z) technology--like Philips Wow3D-and either encode as multi-angle (using the Z on the 2nd angle) or normally but putting the Z in the MPEG User Data sectors. Then having new players that can read that format, etc.
D. Add the 2nd perspective and encode both using an MPG4 (good only for BR) using one of 3 contesting Multi-view profiles and either use the Multi-angle or the UserDataSector method...blah,blah,blah. The TDVision method works this way.

A. Is the easiest to implement (and could have been implemented 4 years ago). I invented it, as an alternative to a method created and Patented by Panasonic/Matsushita but left unused. My efforts have met with much resistance, but the main factor against this method isn't technological, it's business. It uses about 80% MORE disc space, so you have less time available. It also uses a much higher bitrate overall (if you count both streams), so isn't that good for broadcast with limited bandwidth. People want full length content and they want it at high quality, so nearly double the space/BW requirements leaves less for the rest and companies don't want to give that up.
B. Is better in the space/BW department, but actually doesn't work for non-animation, non-advertising material, because you lose other "believeability factors" when converting to the 2D+Z format. Like water shimmer (look at a real moving body of water in 3D, it is the BOMB!).
C. Is very good, but does make some compromises with overall quality and depth differentiation, and it isn't as efficient as..
D. Which is a very good contender. However, I really dislike the "proprietary-ness" of this method, and it limits it to MPG4, so DVD is out. But this is probably what Hollywood is going for, because it'll require you to get a new, deluxe new BR player, and new BR material (with all the accompanying copyright controls--much more than DVD). So currently my bet is on this taking off in 2010 or 2011.

Then there's the display:

Again, currently:
A. 100-120Hz TVs (not LCD-based) or projectors (e.g.: DepthQ) and LCD shutters,
B. Philips 2D+Z Wow3D tvs, and NO glasses.
C. Samsung/Mitsubishi 3D-ready checkerboard method, and LCD shutters
D. Dual projectors, and non-dep. Silver screen and Polarized glasses.
others...

I could talk more, as this is what I'm jazzed about these days (3D producer and tech consultant), but that'll do for now...

PM me or start a new thread if there's more Qs/comments about this.

Scott

[mazinz]

And I am still clinging onto my lcd shutter glasses (razor3d) that were a nice setup for true 3d However since the refresh rates on newer systems can go all over the place and the fact that older analog sets are now dead doesn't help that format at all (though a ton of films have been booted over the years for it). Another reason why home versions are all using anaglyph, ease of compatability. Regardless of what type of set is out there they all can use red/blue

Cornucopia
Very informative and very intesting. Keep fighting to push your format!