IVTC/De-interlace isues, Premiere --> TMPGenc SVCD coversion

[volswagn]

I'm just about tearing my hair out, and if anyone has some advice on this, I can't tell you how much it would be appreciated...

What I'm trying to do:

I have a bunch of music video collections from the old "Rock Video Monthly" video club. Each tape has about 10-12 videos on it, and they're taking a lot of library space. I only want usually three or four videos from each, so I'm capturing them, then editing a "new" video collection in Premiere with transitions, etc... I'm then frameserving to TMPGenc.

The problem is that I'm having constant interlace shake problems when playing the SVCD's back on my standalone DVD player.

So far I've tried using Virtual Dub's adaptive IVTC to create new progressive 24fps avis, but it looked like that wasn't really working, so I didn't actually try re-editing the Virtual Dub IVTC avis in Premiere and then frameserving them. When I examined the resulting Virtual Dub avis it looked like they still had a lot of interlaced frames.

I also tried making sure all the frame orders were correct in Premiere and then used TMPGEnc's IVTC to basically IVTC the whole frameserved file, but that only worked for about 1/2 the videos... And I'm sure the frame orders were correct. I even tried reversing the ones that didn't come out correct, but no dice...

I've also tried NOT IVTCing, and just creating the final SVCD mpg at 29.97fps, but some of the videos still shake pretty badly...

I know this is probably the most demanding project I could do, given the different ways that music videos are done -- film with video effects, quick cuts, high bandwidth, etc...

Has anyone done something like this? I considered deinterlacing the whole thing, but wouldn't that significantly degrade the image quality? The videos that DON'T shake look great, and I'd rather not degrade the quality unless it's unavoidable...

Ugh...

Thanks in advance for any advice...

[malducci]

I have had a similar problem, but with a DVD to SVCD. When I converted the video to 24 fps, the result was every 4 or 5th frame appeared to be out of sync ( like it was taking a step back one frame on every 5th or so ). I played very jerky on high motion scenes but better on low motion scenes. My source was 29.97fps and if I even tried to encoded without teleciding the video, it still appeared jerky. What is the source format that you are using(i.e. avi,mpeg2,mov)? I solved the problem by frameserving with AVIsynth and using the IVTC.dll plugin since decomb.dll ( the original IVTC I was using ) didn't perform the inverse telecine correctly and leaving it at the original source framerate 29.97fps didn't fix the problem either. Anyway, your problem sounded familiar to mine. Hope that helps.

[SatStorm]

I know only for Pal. I was never fun of NTSC...

I capture to D1 (704 X 576) from VHS, because my card (asus 7700 deluxe) don't support 352 X 576 which is the ideal resolution for VHS Capture.
I load my avis DIRECT to tmpegenc 2.52 plus, with no frameservers, etc. With the new version, you don't need frameservers anymore!
I use the filters of Tmpgenc for anything and to set the start and the end frame of my file.
ALWAYS, I set to TMPGenc's advance menu, the following: Video source type: Interlace, Field order: Top field first (field A). This is neccessary for analgue captures!!! Then, I go to Video menu and I set encode mode to interlace. With 2 Pass VBR min 220/average 1900/max 2600 and D2 resolution (352 X 576) I have perfect picture and no stuttering!

The problem you have, is a typical field order problem. If you don't have TBC with your VCR, then field order change all the time and that creates a mess!. The only true solution is a new VCR with TBC or encode to lower resolutions, like 352 X 288.
In theory, VHS is 352 X 288, so you simply de-interlace and you don't have to mess with the field order, even if it change because of your VCR all the time.
In praxis, 352 X 576 from VHS looks much better IMO...
I hope to help you a bit!

[volswagn]

Thanks for the help!

I usually leave the field order alone, unless I get a stuttering in the final video. For some reason, I can't leave it at field A or B first all the time... It depends on the video. What I usually do when I have a film source is to use TMPGEnc's IVTC filter on the first 100 or so frames to see which is the starting field order. If the resulting frames are good, I just set my new endpoint (without changing the inpoint)... If they're bad, I flip the field order and that solves the problem

Trouble is, I realized that my problem was 1/2 frame problems. In some of these videos, EVERY frame from the capture is interlaced. I never have this problem with Enterprise (the only thing I encode regularly). What I'm gathering is that somehow the interlaced frame gets split between two separate frames, so EVERY frame is interlaced...

I don't know how to fix this, so I've been deinterlacing in Premiere (the reason I'm not putting AVI's directly into TMPGEnc is because I'm editing a whole bunch of 3-5 minute AVIs together for a 40 minute SVCD). It's solved the problem, but maybe not the best way as far as image quality goes...

I dunno...