Auto Mechanics: car trouble with possible stalling and hesitation symtoms

[vhelp]

Calling on any good (non-bullshitting) auto mechanic's out there. Are your radars on. .. . .. .

Here's the situation:

only owner since its inseption of
1997 plymouth neon, 4 door, 4 cylinder
76k miles
never had it tuned--all mechanics i've ever talked to said these never need tuneups
excellent startup. just recently had its first starter replacement, but starts like a champ, no misses

History

Over the last 3 to 4 years, I've been noticing strange hesitation while driving, usually 55 mph, if I gradually lighten up on the gas the car will something give it a slight hickup or buck-buck kind of jerk to it at that speed. Other than that strange phenomina, I dont' know if that means something since it nevers actaully gives me any trouble going to/from work every day, maybe 35 miles or more a day, every day. When I did report this on the few occasions I got that chance (while speaking to a mechanic) he would look at me like I was crazy or something. I guess he was either pretty stupid or just didn't care about such strange behaviour. But, being a mechanic, you must have seen and known everything about anything in terms of issues, even those strange one, like that I just described. Anyway.

This past two or three days, I noticed that this same phenona was now on a regular bases except that it does it bucking I described whenever I slow down or come to a stop. And if I start suddenly then usual (say while just catching a red light, and you stop quick) the car shuts off or stalls.

Today, when I went to start my car after work, to go home, I noticed the car started right up. As I started driving, it would hickup, (5/10 mph) like my 72 plymoth duster would when too much oil was in there or it was choking at the carborator. But the symptoms seemed similar, like, day-sha-vou or something. Anyway. And when I would be at a stop, the car would seem to choke and want to stall. If I weren't quick-thinking (lots of expereince in this situation) in keeping my foot on the gas and brake at the same time, the car would surely stall, as this has happend once or twice in its life time, and in other cars. So I am familiar with these certains signs and things. So, at every stop, I have to keep an eye out for the hickup or kickback nonsense, by keeping my foot on the brake and gas at the same time, less it stalls.

Well, when I made it close to home, the grocery store, that is. I can feel the car stalling as I get ready to shut it off to go grocery shopping. 20 minutes later, when I went to start the car up go to home, the car kept turning as I started it. I decided to randomly let the key go, (so I won't kill the battery) and I could see that the car was trying to catch the crank to start, and when it finally did, it was still hickuping, because it does this at very slow speeds (5mph) or full stop. So, keeping a good balance with both feet, one on the brake and other on the gas pedal I managed to make my way home.

Conclusion

Now that I'm home, I feel that tomorrow I may have some problems starting the car up, being that I had the first trouble with starting it up from the store. I have to go to work tomorrow, and I feel worried that either it will give me trouble starting up or wont at all like it *almost* didn't at the store. I was lucky that it actually cought the turn during cranking when I released the key. But I"m worried it will give me trouble by tomorrow morning.

Does anybody familiar with auto mechanics know what is actually going on with my car and can advise me what I can do, partiularly how to stay away from the high expense (rip-off) of the mechanics of today ?

I would appreciate any sound suggestions, or your thoughts/theories on problems I just described.

Thank you.

-vhelp 5083

[gadgetguy]

I'm not a mechanic but what you're describing sounds like what happened to my wife's '92 Lebaron. That turned out to be a faulty air/fuel sensor.

[freebird73717]

Sounds like a fuel issue to me...like the fuel injectors are getting clogged or something. I had an old 1972 firebird (carburetor not fuel injected) that acted this way. I took the carburetor apart and the inline fuel filter was full of trash (rust particles and dirt from an old gas tank). After cleaning that out it ran great.

Since your car is newer I'm assuming that it is fuel injected so things wont be that easy. You could try buying some of that fuel injector cleaner that you put in your gas tank. It's only about $5 or $6 and wont hurt anything if that is not the problem.

But then it could be a multitude of other things. I'm not a mechanic and not very mechanical. I can change my own oil, put on new brake pads, and I've rebuilt a carburetor once but that's the extent of my mechanical knowledge. Just basically thinking "out loud"

Hope you get it worked out and can find an honest mechanic. Do try the injector cleaner first as it's cheap and if it don't work your not out all that much.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

...never had it tuned--all mechanics i've ever talked to said these never need tuneups...

This is bullshit. Even if it has distributor-less ignition, the plugs and wires still need to be replaced at regular intervals.

Is this vehicle an automatic transmission or manual?

Cleaning your fuel system and replacing the fuel filter(s) certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

[gll99]

Do you get a check engine light? If so then the error code(s) will point you right to the problem area.

These are general 95 to 98 Chrysler vehicle trouble codes:
http://www.troublecodes.net/chrysler/95-98_20253335.shtml
If you don't have a code reader many car models show some of the error code through a series of blinks when the ignition is turned on/off 3 times and then left on but never to the point of engaging the starter. You could google the topic for your car model and see if a more specific code list is available and instructions on how to read them without a reader. I don't think you can get the more detailed "P" subcodes without a reader but even the basic codes would be very helpful. Even if the light is not on it's worth pursuing this because some codes may register but not trigger the light to come on.

I'm not a licensed mechanic but I had similar (but milder) issues with my 4 cylinder 1997 Plymouth Breeze when I hit about 90k. I got a code 43 (misfire) but didn't have a reader for the "P" code which would have told me which cylinder was misfiring. Lazy as I am, I hadn't changed the spark plugs in a long time so took the easy way out and changed them without exploring further but I did notice that one was a little dirtier than the others. The problem went away but a couple of months later I sometimes noticed a slight bit of vibration at stop lights with my foot on the brake and the car still in drive. If I put the car in park or neutral (which takes load off the engine) it ran smooth. I also noticed a slight hesitation at highway speed when I first tried to accelerate to pass or increase my speed but it wasn't all the time. I rechecked my plugs and one had a very slight damp look to it. So I knew that cylinder wasn't firing properly all the time. I changed the ignition wires and that did the trick.

You're secondary issues (hard to start) after a stall are probably related but temporary. I didn't check your model but if it's fuel injected like mine these things don't do well with short starts and stops. If you start it then give it gas and then turn it off and restart it it shortly after it might sputter and stall because of flooding (fouled (wet) spark plugs) and might be hard to start for a while. A friend told me he had to remove the plugs and clean them just to start the car after (ladies look away here ) his wife (raised on non fuel injection models) pumped the gas pedal to start the car and soaked the plugs to the point where they would have taken hours if not days to dry out.

Of course it could be something else like a sensor, injectors etc... so obtaining the "fault/error code(s)" is still the best option but if they are not revealing or you can't get them, then personally, I would start with new plugs and ignition wires. You should be able to do this yourself easily. All you need is a spark plug wrench (for the car model's plug size) and a gauge to measure and adjust the gap for your car model. The ignition wires come in sets and are usually sized in length for the vehicle. You just need to make sure you reconnect the cap wires in the same firing sequence to the same plug but you will never mix them up if you change one at a time. If it's never been done, based on the age of your vehicle changing the ignition wires is a good idea no matter what else may be indicated.

Edit:
I think my 97 and yours can be read like it says here.
http://codes.rennacs.com/plugins/Chrysler-US-EFI/CHRYSLER-US-EFI-38-POST95CEL-Fifth.php
I didn't run my engine and all that but it worked anyway. The key is to count the blinks as it says for the 2 digit code starting with the left digit. 5 blinks followed by 5 blinks means an end of the codes after that they might repeat again. There could be more than one code set so just write the digits until you get a 55 and then match the pairs.

Some cars have digital displays on the dash near the odometer but I don't think this applies to you but here is the link anyway
http://codes.rennacs.com/plugins/Chrysler-US-EFI/CHRYSLER-US-EFI-38-POST97OM-Fifth.php

[Webster]

You may also need to check the Ignition coil (or coil-pack depended on what is in your particular car model). It maybe faulty. Sometime with the coil-pack, if one of it is faulty, the cylinder of that particular coil will not fire and cause the car to stall.

[gll99]

I just found out that while my Breeze's computer has the extended "P" fault codes, your 97 Neon doesn't have those so you only need to get the 2 digit code which you can do by following the procedure in the second last link I provided.

Good luck.

[freebird73717]

Do you get a check engine light? If so then the error code(s) will point you right to the problem area.

You can take your car to any local autozone, nappa, orileys, pep boys, etc. and they will check the error codes from your check engine light for free. They have the code readers on hand and they will gladly check it for free because they hope you will buy the part to fix it from them while you are there.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Indeed! Much better than paying the dealership $100.00 just to connect the diagnostic machine.

[vhelp]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid to get dirty, but every time I lift the hood it scares me to look around cause there's no room to manuver or change anything.

battery

I refently changed the battery in mine, maybe 4 months ago or so. I still have the old dead battery in my trunk since the store wont take it back now--too many months gone by. But, I remember that job was an serious ordeal. It took me maybe 4 hours to change. You see, the car was in storage for a year, outside. I took it out of storage this past October I think. Anyway. So, the battery (which was 1 year old at the time of storage) went bad sitting there. it had a mound of white angle dust over the terminals and the leads were leaded out--they were all green. And I had to wire scrub the leads as clean as I could just to remove the bolts in order to remove the plugs from the terminals. That alone took maybe 2 hours.

Then, the next ordeal was with removing the battery. It turned out that the base of the battery had rusted something real good and I couldn't get it free. Plus, there was another bolt that bound'ed the batter to the base. That NUT was rusted solid, and, it stripped the threads, so that nut would turn freely without doing anything for the battery.

Finally, after 2 hours figure about the battery and what to do, I got hold a mini crowbar and started prying around the edges etc. I finally got it off, but it was very messy. I was finished. Well, not quite.

The next and finally ordeal was with the installing the new battery and re-attatching the wires. Still using the corroaded wires, I wire brushed them some more, and then proceed to re-connect them. Well, turns out that the battery was slightly odd shapped and just one inch to far from each wire. I stretched and tugged at those wires and couldn't do anything. Finally, I decided to just tilt the battery slightly and put a block under the base, and then reconnect the wires. That worked, and to this day, no problems. That was maybe 5 months ago, I think. So far so good. Anyway.

When I was finished, I felt like I prob lost 5 lbs from the workout.

..Back to the problem..

spark plugs

I think that the only thing I can change is the plugs. I think I did see them at the center and all lined up. If the sparkplug is the issue that seems like an easy thing to fix but I would need to know the size of the splug (which I don't) and then would have to buy the "socket" to remove. Even if it were $10 dollars that would be ok.

Is this vehicle an automatic transmission or manual?

The car is automatic. I can't drive a schtick no matter what. I burn the axcel out on the hills. Besides, I need the extra hand for when I need to pick my nose or something

If you start it then give it gas and then turn it off and restart it it shortly after it might sputter and stall because of flooding (fouled (wet) spark plugs) and might be hard to start for a while. A friend told me he had to remove the plugs and clean them just to start the car after (ladies look away here ) his wife (raised on non fuel injection models) pumped the gas pedal to start the car and soaked the plugs to the point where they would have taken hours if not days to dry out.

They ought'ta include a dummy light for when you put the key in the ignition that a message shows saying "never pump the peddle" or something like, cause this cause problems in todays cars.

Do you get a check engine light? If so then the error code(s) will point you right to the problem area.

These are general 95 to 98 Chrysler vehicle trouble codes:
http://www.troublecodes.net/chrysler/95-98_20253335.shtml

No. No engine lights come on. Not even during these episodes. It has come on in the past, but I was told that when they do come in and there is no sign of engine trouble (like what I'm going through now) that you can just ignore them and they will go away. Another mechanic told me this. I listend, and sure enought, the engin light stopped comming on. So, I guess he was right. Listen, at least I ask the dumb questions and not just ignore the symtoms all-together.

fuel injection

This model is fuel injected.

maintanence

I have to be honest, despite having the car since brand new, I haven't brought it in for tuneups or oil changes or cooleant change yet, or anything. Well, I did get an oil change last year or so, but that was just before I put it in storage, and it wasn't driven that whole year. But when the guy told me these cars never need tuneups, I carried on in my driving habbits.

driving conditions / habbits / etc

1. Truth be told, I am a good driver. I don't speed up on the highway: I do 55 MPH or road speed limits.
You could say that I drive like an old hag, but really, I'm just aditudish about driving safely.
2. I never peal out, like I see many young teenagers to, etc. IOW, I trodd along like a hourse chariette
3. I never drive around corner or turns at fast speeds: I'm easy-going: else the force puts stress on the springs etc.
4. I never force the gas peddle on grades. I let the car carry me up the hill on its own volish.

All these things, at least to me, adds up to long-gevity. And, I think I have proven that, after 12 years of no tuneups and whatnots, it starts up clean and gets me from A-Z with no trouble, except for the issue I am having now. But, still, 12 years, you can't just go and say, "you see, that's why you're in the predicament you're in now" bit.

So, I think that because of my very good driving habbits, the car ended up lasting far longer than most usual cars do, though they act up in half the years. And, the car is still in good shape. Its just this one issue I'm trying to figure out with you all, here. Oh, and it seems to leak in the back seat. I ca't figure out where the leak is coming from, but water is always on the bottom or carpet on the right side, backseat section. That one is a mystery. It makes me want to believe that the bottom has a whole in it and water is coming up during driving. But I did have it checked, and no wholes or cracks in sight.

sirvival

So far, I made it to and from work today. The car is still giving me trouble. When I'm on the hightway, it is fine. I guess at fast speeds, that whatever is cauing the problems, the speed seems to be the main element. Fast now problem. slow, then we have problems. But the speed varies from 0 to maybe 20 mph. And when I bring the car to a hault, it also bucks at me. You can feel it wanting to stall. So, I have to keep both feet balancing the brake and gas peddle. Its a temporary bandaide until I can figure out what the cause is, and resolve it with least expense.

My thanks to everyone for contributing to my (temporary) mysery.

-vhelp 5084

[Silvas]

Tune up, I.E. plugs, wires, fuel filter.

[Webster]

No. No engine lights come on. Not even during these episodes. It has come on in the past, but I was told that when they do come in and there is no sign of engine trouble (like what I'm going through now) that you can just ignore them and they will go away. Another mechanic told me this. I listend, and sure enought, the engin light stopped comming on. So, I guess he was right. Listen, at least I ask the dumb questions and not just ignore the symtoms all-together.

76k miles

I have to be honest, despite having the car since brand new, I haven't brought it in for tuneups or oil changes or cooleant change yet, or anything. Well, I did get an oil change last year or so, but that was just before I put it in storage, and it wasn't driven that whole year. But when the guy told me these cars never need tuneups, I carried on in my driving habbits.


-vhelp 5084

It'd sound hard to believe, 76K miles without oil change!!!! There is no way that car can survive without having the oil changed somewhere along the line. Are you sure that this is true? Since motor oil tend to breakdown after a while. It doesn't last for ever. The oil filter probably all clogged up. Are you sure your mechanic didn't changed the oil and told you that it is routine maintainance in the write up?
Without a tune up, at 76K miles, the sprark plugs probaly all shot to 'ell by now (unless they are made of platinum, which may last up to 100K). They definitely need to change.

Also, there is one more thing you may want to check just to rule it out. Check the oil with the dip stick. make sure that there are no water in the oil. With the buckling problem you mentioned. If you have water (coolant) in the oil, you may have blew the head gasket in the engine.

[zzyzzx]

I'm thinking spark plugs. Those "100,000 mile" plugs only last about 75,000 miles. Seriously! At the very least they need to be regapped. been through this twice now with those double platinum plugs. I recommend regapping every 30,000 miles.

[lordsmurf]

My GM had the same issue. Faulty fuel sensor was my issue too.

Cheap gas was another problem, that garbage 76 crap from the cheap stores (RaceTrac, among others). I only now use Shell gas. I used to think all gas was the same, but it's not.

You might want to check your plugs, but I doubt that's it.

It took me two years to find the problem, mechanics all gave me dumbass advice. I think I got help, of all places, at Videohelp off-topic, and the suggestions worked!

My driving habits are similar to yours with one exception: I drive down Interstates a lot, and average speeds range from 65-90 depending on location. None of the 55mph here on these roads, I'd be creamed.

[vhelp]

[update] 4/24/2009 Friday

Well, I thought I would give an update to my car's situation here.

Last past sunday, the "service engine soon" yellow light came on.

That same evening, (I took the suggestions posted here) and purchased a fuel cleaner for $8 bucks at k-mart:

1. cleans entire fuels system
2. max fue econ
3. prevents fut depos buildup
4. restores lost horse
5. remove water from gas
6. etc.

(Now, it did advertise that you use 21 gal..but come'on..who has a 21 gal tank on a 4cyl car. So, I went half-sees, and two days later, use last half and filled car up again)

The condition of my car's symptons seem to have finally subsided, and the yellow light no longers comes on. So it looks like after all these years my car put through a lot of congestion and what-nots. The plugs are prob dirty or shot. I've seen in some cases where the "hook" is no longer there--burnt out--and this could be possible on one or more plugs in my car, and I would have to have a look-sees, but I'm too lazy though curious, just to satisfy my curiosity and report back the *exact* issues. But, I'm too busy with work and economy nonsense. Anyway.

However, after this experience, I will consider an official tune-up, but I don't think I'll be doing it myself because I am too tired to be farting around under the hood and just don't have those teen-age years left in me, not to mention the bouts I went through with the battery experince I mentioned in a previous post above. IOW, its just too complicated to get under the hood and mess around any more's these days. Its too much work and too dirty.

Q: does anybody know what size spark plug socket I would need ? I might consider just having a look-sees at them. I think I might muster up some energy to do that before an tune-up..thanks.

-vhelp 5085

[gadgetguy]

I have 2 rules about working on cars. I don't work on anything that makes it go. And I don't work on anything that makes it stop.

[zoobie]

you could post this in a plymouth neon forum and they'd probably be able to tell you straight away...

probably a standard socket but chrysler used at least 2 sizes of sockets...just ask someone at autozone or checkers

I bought a saturn once and didn't even know what model it was...(no owners manual and the title hadn't been sent to me yet)

I found a forum and asked...

[Silvas]

You will need a 5/8 socket for your spark plugs.

[vhelp]

You will need a 5/8 socket for your spark plugs.

thanks. I might actaully have one, now that I recall bying an plug socket some years ago. I'll dig around for it.

Today, in this hot 80 DEG plus weather I had my first stall when I stopped short at a traffic light. I had the fan on full blast, and the windows open. I had to close the windows and turn off the fan just so that I could hear wheather the engine turned or not. Luckly, the engine turned a bit before I let it on its own to start, and it did hesitate to engage the final start, but did start and I was on my way. But the car still start up and does its usual souding of symptom-free running.

What all this means (at least to me) is that its time to take her it and get it done, I mean, get her tuned up and what-not. I'll keep you guys posted when I finally do it. Thanks for riding around with me on these auto problem eveyone!

-vhelp 5086

[zzyzzx]

If you really think dirt is a problem, try SeaFoam. Having said that, I still think it's your plugs. I recommend Autolite double platinum plugs. Champions are good too. I'd avoid Bosch plugs unless you are sure that your car likes them,