VHS -> DVD question on quality.

[Oob]

I have decided have my parents homes movies converted from VHS to DVD. The home videos where made on a consumer grade camcorder starting 20 or so years ago. The tapes are in decent condition and are still watched once in a while.

Right now each VHS tape spans many different sessions of recording over months to years. Meaning a tape could have recordings form July 1990 through January 1991. Come December, I want to give my mom an binder of catalog of clearly label and organized dvds.

Sounds simple enough.

I have one question that I did not want to make an assumption because well you know happens when you assume...

I am planning on converting the tapes with a ADVC-110 and a consumer VCR/DVD combo from any major department store(Wal-Mart). My goal is to have the DVD video look as good as if I were playing the tape in the VCR directly to the TV. My assumption is that this is an achievable goal using a ADVC-110 and consumer VCR. I just want to make sure I am not too far off base.

Thank you
Tony

[lordsmurf]

It may look worse, because you want to use a cheap VCR. The noise it outputs might look worse when digitized to DVD.

A better goal would be for the DVD to look better than the tape, something I do on a daily basis. I don't see the point in archving, if you're not trying to improve the quality, pull every last drop of quality from the tape. Tapes have more quality than a standard consumer VCR is able to read.

[robjv1]

It's funny, this sort of reminds me of Nintendo 64 games. The hardware of the N64 actually has to degrade the quality of the textures and such on the N64 cartridges, because the hardware can't play the games at a decent frame-rate. However, you can turn around and play those same N64 games on a PC and squeeze all of the quality out of these games, it's almost like playing a whole new game.

It's the same thing with a VHS tape (well, at least commercial ones). A cheap consumer VCR does a lousy job scraping the information off of the tape, while a better VCR can make it a whole new experience. I went back and watched some of my old conversions made on a cheap-o VCR and I was shocked how busy the picture looked. The image just seemed to be wavy and subtly moving all the time, with noticeable lines and dropouts occuring at various points. The same tape converted on a better quality VCR has NONE of those problems.

[orsetto]

Capturing old camcorder tapes to the PC is a giant pain in the ass to begin with, so you don't want to do it and end up with crappy results. On the other hand, to get fantastic results, you really need to be an experienced expert like LordSmurf, who does this sort of thing every day professionally. Many people think they can just get a recommendation for a good VCR, capture card, DVD recorder or whatever, and right away achieve superior results. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, the process can be maddeningly complex and involve lots of trial and error. I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer", but its unlikely you'll be able to achieve LordSmurf-level results by December, especially with all the additional editing you'll need to do for chronology after the footage is captured.

I suggest aiming for "acceptable" results, and if you can do better along the way thats great. The first thing you can do to boost quality is forget the combo deck as your tape player: take the time to search out a known-good used VCR on eBay or Craigs List. Since the tapes are VHS, it helps if you buy the same brand VCR as the camera was, preferably from around the same year (1991). VCRs often have dates stamped in the back near the serial number that can be checked. A good 4-head hifi VCR from Mitsubishi, Sharp, Quasar or Panasonic is the minimum starting point for you, and shouldn't cost more than $25-35 used. Better results can be achieved with much more expensive used VCRs ($150-500), but not always and not if you don't have familiarity with that VCR. The most popular "high end" VCRs for this kind of work are the Panasonic AG1980 svhs, and/or the JVC and Mitsubishi "DVHS" vcrs. These have several tape enhancement and repair circuits not found on cheap VCRs, but in many cases they are in fact just cheap VCRs with some fancy circuits added. Some of the popular older JVC svhs units suffer from this, you have to be careful when shopping, I would skip these and look for the Panasonic or later JVC/MGAs instead. Note that using any of these "fancy" vcrs opens a whole new can of worms: for every improvement they make, they sacrifice something else, which may then require additional hardware to compensate or switching from one brand vcr to another from tape to tape.

If you're up for the challenge, can afford the tools, enjoy working with A/V toys, and don't mind being glued to your computer, by all means pick up one or more advanced high-end VCRs and try your luck. But if you've never done this before and have no plans to ever do it again, the effort may not be worth it. Do a test with one tape and one good affordable VCR, and see if you find the results acceptable on DVD. If you do, proceed with the rest of the tapes and you should be happy. But if you think the results need to be MUCH improved, you may be better off paying a pro to do this for you- the skill, money, time and hardware required may be more than you want to tackle personally. Good luck.

[johns0]

Are these 8mm video tapes copied to vhs already and you'r going to use the vhs version to transfer with?

[Oob]

Noted. The family camcorder recorded directly on VHS tapes.

If I could find a professional service in my area (Southeastern Wisconsin) and able to get raw video instead of DVDs back I would. I have an fear (unwarranted fear maybe) of having the home videos lost in the mail.

[johns0]

It would be much better to use the original 8mm tapes to transfer with than the copied vhs tapes,the quality will be much better.

[robjv1]

Orsetto is right on the money. Some tapes really give the fancy VCRs trouble, especially crappy EP vhs tapes recorded on a 1980 camera with one of those 15lb "portable" VCRs and you connected to the camera and lugged around with you... ah the memories :P

[2Bdecided]

You need something to stabilise the video before sending it to the ADVC-110 - preferably a line-TBC (at least) built into the VCR - or maybe looping it through one of the DVD-Rs that are known to improve the signal on the way through (though may not be ideal for actually recording it).

Without this, you'll probably find the video noise or wobbly.

Cheers,
David.

[lordsmurf]

If I could find a professional service in my area (Southeastern Wisconsin) and able to get raw video instead of DVDs back I would. I have an fear (unwarranted fear maybe) of having the home videos lost in the mail.

A lot of the "local services" tend to use cheap shit they buy from Best Buy or Walmart. Because customers don't know any better, the local services often lie, saying why their gear is special. Many more "local services" bulk send their stuff to labs, sometimes in places like India. These include Walgreens, Wolf, etc. You may as well do it yourself, if a "local service" is all you're willing to use.

Higher-end services don't waste money on storefronts, they operate from closed facilities, and deal directly with customers (many times, large customers, such as studios, recording labels, corporate media, etc). Some of us still "slum it" with enthusiasts and one-off jobs from individuals. It's mostly because we want to, we like helping families preserve memories, in between the "real work" (studios, labels, etc).

I've never had the mail lose a customer package. The rule of thumb here is to use a box, pad it with peanuts or bubbles, and use a fast service (U.S. Priority Mail, Fedex 2-Day, UPS 3-Day). The cheap media mail, ground, etc --- the longer it's out there, the more chance something can go wrong.

I'd personally want to work off the 8mm tapes. I have a pretty nice Sony player for 8mm and Hi8. It would look better than the low-quality VHS copies, SP or LP or EP/SLP mode.