HD Capturing and Playback needs

[GLE3]

When I bought my first TV capture card I made the mistake of assuming my PC could handle captures at maximum resolution (offered by the card). The minimum specifications listed weren’t that specific. Well, I could only capture at half of what the card had to offer without dropping frames.

Well, I am now looking at newer capture cards and I don’t want to make the same mistake twice. I don’t have a PC that will support an HD card right now and was wondering what the recommended specifications would be in order to support one (if there is such a thing). Does anyone have suggestions on processor speed or amount of ram that would be needed. Do most cards actually come with requirements?

Thanks!

[neomaine]

GLE3,

Actually, the two components you list (processor, RAM) are the last two that I'd worry about.

CPU: though important, can be offset by having a video card that can assist. Any somewhat current (6 mos) dual or quad CPU should be able to handle it.

RAM: More important for the OS and the programs you run then the actual capturing. Capturing is not RAM intensive whatsoever.

I'd be concerned with having a current video card that would support your codec of choice for capturing\playback. This would greatly minimize both capture and playback of codecs that require high bitrates associated with HD.

Next would be to make sure you have ample and separate hard drive space. If serious, you should have at least 3 hard drives: 1) For OS and programs, 2) Capture drive, and 3) Edit drive. The point here is to isolate what drive you a capturing to so it doesn't have to deal with OS/program I/O requests. The third drive is for editing/processing. Use one drive as your 'source' drive and one as your 'destination' drive. This way, you don't have one drive trying to handle both heavy read AND heavy writes at the same time. Pay particular attention to your software's use of temporary drives and keep both drives as defragmented as possible.

If you can afford a HD capture solution, you should be able to put together a good machine to support it.

[Soopafresh]

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

[prouton]

The reason that many (inexpensive) TV tuner (capture) cards couldn't perform at the maximum stated frame rates/resolution is that they depended on the computer's CPU to compress the data stream before writing to the hard drive. The card would convert from analog to digital, but the sheer volume of data meant it wasn't feasible to write the data uncompressed. The more expensive TV Tuner cards offered MPEG compression in the hardware of the card. This relieved the CPU of almost all of the work -- it only had to handle writing the compressed data to the hard drive.

HD television streams, on the other hand, are by their nature already compressed. Only if you want to bring in an analog source (VCR, cable box, etc.) into these newer cards do you need to ensure they have "hardware MPEG2 compression" in the specifications list. Note that so far the only consumer product that will accept an analog HD feed is the Hauppauge HD-PVR.

Storage space and playback are where you need some real beef in order to handle HD. As another poster stated, playback relies mostly on a really good video card and the appropriate codec to utilize the hardware based decoding features.

[edDV]

When I bought my first TV capture card I made the mistake of assuming my PC could handle captures at maximum resolution (offered by the card). The minimum specifications listed weren’t that specific. Well, I could only capture at half of what the card had to offer without dropping frames.

It would help if you gave more specifics about the card, capture formats and where you see frame drops. I assume you are talking about standard def.

Ideally for a PIII you would buy a card with hardware encoding to MPeg2 such as the Hauppauge PVR-150 or higher.

[GLE3]

[quote="edDV"]

It would help if you gave more specifics about the card, capture formats and where you see frame drops. I assume you are talking about standard def.

Ideally for a PIII you would buy a card with hardware encoding to MPeg2 such as the Hauppauge PVR-150 or higher.

Yep, standard def. I drop frames at any thing over 480 X 480. I haven't experimented with any codecs other than Mpeg-2. Unfortunately, I heard about cards with mpeg2 encoding after I bought mine.

[GLE3]

I got this off another forum. It’s using H.264 codec. Is there more CPU intensive codecs out there? Do the Windows specs sound legit?

Recommended Hardware Configurations for H.264 High-Definition (HD) Playback
To play high-definition video, a large amount of data must be processed by your computer. A powerful system will deliver the best playback experience.

For 852x480 (480p) video at 24 frames per second:
(Windows)
2.0 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or faster processor
At least 512MB of RAM
64MB or greater video card
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Vista

For 1280x720 (720p) video at 24-30 frames per second:
(Macintosh)
1.8 GHz PowerMac G5 or 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster Macintosh computer
At least 256MB of RAM
64 MB or greater video card
(Windows)
2.8 GHz Pentium 4 or faster processor
At least 512MB of RAM
64MB or greater video card
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Vista

For 1920x1080 (1080p) video at 24 frames per second:
(Macintosh)
Dual 2.0 GHz PowerMac G5 or 2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster Macintosh computer
At least 512MB of RAM
128MB or greater video card
(Windows)
3.0 Ghz Intel Pentium D (dual-core) or faster processor
At least 1GB of RAM
64MB or greater video card
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Vista

[prouton]

Well now you've confused me. Are you asking about specs for recording, or for playback? For HD recording from an analog (component) source, or TV tuner recording?

Frankly, the "recommended" information you posted referred to playback, and nowhere did it mention a video (display) card. For playing back recordings, the video card is what you need to pay attention to, as the right way to ensure smooth playback is to utilize the hardware decoding features of a modern video card. You can brute force it with a general purpose processor (like an Intel or AMD CPU) and appropriate codec, but that means the machine may not be capable of doing anything else simultaneously (like record a second show).

[guns1inger]

And if your specs are correct in your profile, this card is a waste of money for you because your PC is so far below the minimum I would be surprised if you even had a slot for it.

[GLE3]

Well now you've confused me. Are you asking about specs for recording, or for playback? For HD recording from an analog (component) source, or TV tuner recording?

Frankly, the "recommended" information you posted referred to playback, and nowhere did it mention a video (display) card. For playing back recordings, the video card is what you need to pay attention to, as the right way to ensure smooth playback is to utilize the hardware decoding features of a modern video card. You can brute force it with a general purpose processor (like an Intel or AMD CPU) and appropriate codec, but that means the machine may not be capable of doing anything else simultaneously (like record a second show).

Sorry about that, I reread my original post and can see how it could be confusing. I bought a capture card for my P3 and assumed I would be able use it to it’s maximum capabilities since the card itself did not list minimum CPU requirements. I took the advice of the forum and defraged the hard drive, closed the extra things out of the system tray, tweaked the software that came with the card, and made sure the IDE was set to DMA. Still I could not capture in anything greater than 480 X 480(CPU at 90 to 95%). Anything higher will vault my CPU to 100% and I will drop a frame or two every couple seconds. Since it sounds like capturing with a P3 is hit or miss, coupled with the fact that I don’t have Mpeg compression on the card made me give up on trying to capture 720 X 480. I just briefly referenced my past experience in my original post (my first paragraph) to get me to my next point.

I am looking around for a newer PC and down the road, a new HD capture card(the one I have now is just analog). In order to capture in HD, I want to make sure that I have a computer that operate the card to it’s fullest. I want to capture and playback so I was assuming there is some sort of HD “standard” out there for PC requirements. I posted the H.264 codec as sort of starting point to get an idea on general thoughts of other capture enthusiasts. I see a lot of this used in internet and I can’t play it back with my P3.

In a nutshell, I was uninformed and lazy before. Trying to be a bit more proactive now. 

By the way, thanks for all the posts so far! It’s nice to know there is someone out there that will listen and respond, despite the confusion I create!

[Nelson37]

Assuming a fairly modern PC, both capture and playback are almost completely dependent on the card.

Most capture cards either grab the already compressed stream with no processing, or use on-board encoding.

Playback needs a boost from the video card, on all but a very hi-performance PC. Playback software also becomes far more important.

That place where the specs came from, the specs that barely mention the video card, the most important single piece of the equation? Not real confident in those folks.

[sitlet]

Sorry about that, I reread my original post and can see how it could be confusing. I bought a capture card for my P3 and assumed I would be able use it to it’s maximum capabilities since the card itself did not list minimum CPU requirements. I took the advice of the forum and defraged the hard drive, closed the extra things out of the system tray, tweaked the software that came with the card, and made sure the IDE was set to DMA. Still I could not capture in anything greater than 480 X 480(CPU at 90 to 95%). Anything higher will vault my CPU to 100% and I will drop a frame or two every couple seconds. Since it sounds like capturing with a P3 is hit or miss, coupled with the fact that I don’t have Mpeg compression on the card made me give up on trying to capture 720 X 480. I just briefly referenced my past experience in my original post (my first paragraph) to get me to my next point.

I am looking around for a newer PC and down the road, a new HD capture card(the one I have now is just analog). In order to capture in HD, I want to make sure that I have a computer that operate the card to it’s fullest. I want to capture and playback so I was assuming there is some sort of HD “standard” out there for PC requirements. I posted the H.264 codec as sort of starting point to get an idea on general thoughts of other capture enthusiasts. I see a lot of this used in internet and I can’t play it back with my P3.

In a nutshell, I was uninformed and lazy before. Trying to be a bit more proactive now. 

By the way, thanks for all the posts so far! It’s nice to know there is someone out there that will listen and respond, despite the confusion I create!

yea, if you are still using a P3 computer with a 40gb hard drive (as your specs say), you will not be able to do anything with capturing video. you're lucky you can even capture 480x480 right now. and if you only have a 40gb hard drive, im assuming windows/program files take up at least half of that. meaning you have no space for video capturing. HD capturing typically takes aroung 4.5gb per hour, depending on the source.

while there are no "standard" HD specs for a new computer, like the people above me said, a good cpu/video card combo is essential. pretty much any dual core 2.0ghz and above should be enough power. as for a video card, my advice is to go with the best you can afford. the better the video card, the less problems you will run into.

as others have stated, hard drive space is key for video capturing and editing. i myself use a 320gb internal hard drive, and have 10 external drives for capturing/editing/archiving. anytime i do any work, i plug in at least 2 external drives, one to capture, and 1 or 2 for editing. using you main OS drive for capturing/editing is not recommended...your system will get too clogged up and wont run good at all.

[SHS]

Frist I like to say a Dual or Quad CPU is not need for High-Definition (HD) Playback weather or not MPEG2HD or H.264

Recommended bear Min Hardware Configurations for MPEG2 or H.264 High-Definition (HD) Playback
2.0 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon 2600 faster processor
At least 512MB of RAM
64MB or greater video card, if it AGP your best option is ATI HD 3650 or 3850 the same with PCIe , But being nVidia dosen't make any AGP any more you have PCIe motherboard and go with PCIe GeForce 8 or 9 Series as your best option.
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or Higher OS

[jonjennings]

I captured a 1hr long HD program last night through Windows Media Center, and I was stoked. However, when I did playback, the computer went to the "black screen of death" on 2 separate occasions. I had to hold down the power button to force the machine off and then reboot up. Any ideas on what component(s) I need to upgrade?

I am wondering if I need more RAM (which doesn't seem to be the case according to theses posts)
Maybe a separate Hard Drive (I was going to get an internal 1TB drive).

Here are my specs:
AMD X2 4400+, 2.3
2GB RAM
Hauppauge-WinTV-HVR-1600 Vista Premium Certified High Definition TV Tuner/PVR
Diamond Viper ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT PCIE 256MB GDDR2 Video Card

Thoughts?

[edDV]

Thoughts?

The HVR-1600 demuxes ATSC and passes the subchannel MPeg2 stream. There is little computer power needed to capture the pre-encoded stream. Playback of HD MPeg2 needs GPU assist (display card) and a modern CPU or for software only decoding, a fast CPU. See SHS' minimums above. In my experience you need more CPU than that.

[citanool]

OP's system specs seem, to me, atleast almost if not good enough to capture at 720x480. Improvements might consist of a second 7200rpm hard drive on it's own channel, updated/tweaked system BIOS and capture card firmware, fresh/clean/updated/patched/defraged install of XP and starting with only capture app installed and going from there, minimizing used resources/conflicts by removing extra cards/drives and disabling unneeded ports/services, and/or more ram.

[edDV]

Since the input (capture) is already encoded, machine load is light. Playback decode is the problem.

PS: This assumes there is no monitoring of the input.

[citanool]

was speaking to "...Well, I could only capture at half of what the card had to offer without dropping frames..." of OP's first paragraph.