HDMI concerns.

[therock001]

I've got some specific questions concerning the hdmi i'd like to adress.

A)First of all is it dvi-d + the audio?The picture it carries would have been exactly the same if a dvi-d cable was used?

B)If a monitor supports hdmi,does it mean that it always contains speakers,or is it that hdmi as an output from a video source is more common,thus monitors may came with hdmi input while possibly not having speakers integrated?

C)IS the quality significantly better than compononet,DVI-analogue and vga cable?

D)If you use a dvi-d to hdmi cable there's no video quality loss at all right?Is it just the audio that is being vut out?

E)And last one,computers that have hdmi outputs where do they draw the audio from?From the graphics card itself or are they interoperable with the audio card and the use it as means to transfer audio as well?

[jagabo]

A)First of all is it dvi-d + the audio?The picture it carries would have been exactly the same if a dvi-d cable was used?

Yes. The content industry needed to sneak HDCP encryption into the digital chain. So they produced the new "superior" HDMI spec.

B)If a monitor supports hdmi,does it mean that it always contains speakers,or is it that hdmi as an output from a video source is more common,thus monitors may came with hdmi input while possibly not having speakers integrated?

I don't know the answer to this one.

C)IS the quality significantly better than compononet,DVI-analogue and vga cable?

It's theoretically better. But a good component signal/cable can look almost as good. Whether it's significant depends on how close you look, the particular equipment, and your personal definition of significant.

D)If you use a dvi-d to hdmi cable there's no video quality loss at all right?Is it just the audio that is being vut out?

Yes. That is what I use to get from my NVIDIA 8600 GT to my Samsung 1080p HDTV.

E)And last one,computers that have hdmi outputs where do they draw the audio from?From the graphics card itself or are they interoperable with the audio card and the use it as means to transfer audio as well?

You can use the SPDIF connector for digital audio. RCA (or mini pin-plug) line level for stereo. There are a few graphics cards with SPDIF inputs that feed the digital signal from the sound card to the HDMI output.

[Richard_G]

I can't answer all the questions but can tell you of my own experience. My LCD TV has 2 HDMI inputs and both have a pair of phono (RCA) audio sockets associated with them. Not realising that HDMI also carried the audio I connected my upscaling DVD player using both HDMI and audio. However thenreading the manual I found that the audio connectors are provided for use with a computer where the audio comes from the sound card so is separate and I didn't need to use them.

I can't comment on the difference between HDMI and VGA as the DVD player is the only thing I have with an HDMI output and my laptop only has VGA. However, the VGA quality, as long as the resolution is set to the native resolution of the display,is pretty damn good.

[jagabo]

There is one case where DVI, HDMI, and VGA work much better than composite: when using an HDTV as a computer monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping. Composite transmits the grayscale image at full resolution but the color channels are sent at about 1/2 resolution. So a 1920x1080 frame has 1920x1080 grayscale resolution but only 960x1080 color resolution. This isn't of much consequence for video as it only use the lower color resolution anyway (even less with MPEG 1/2/4 compressed video which has only half the resolution in both dimensions). But when used as a desktop monitor the loss of color resolution is very obvious.

[fabpozzi]

What is the quality one can expect from a VGA connection between a laptop and a HDready 37" TV, if I would try to play HD content (1280X720 avi or h264 files)?

[jagabo]

What is the quality one can expect from a VGA connection between a laptop and a HDready 37" TV, if I would try to play HD content (1280X720 avi or h264 files)?

It depends a bit on the TV (its native resolution, whether it resizes the video to its native resolution, resizes to simulate overscan, how well designed the analog interface is, etc) and the laptop (can it output at the TV's native resolution? Does it have good VGA output?) but the quality will normally be very good.

[yoda313]

FYI I use the vga connection for my xbox 360 on my westinghouse hdtv. The picture is fantastic. It's also a lot better than the component cables I was using before I bought the vga cable last year.

I don't have a hdmi model xbox 360 so the vga hd is the best I can do for my xbox. The reason I dont' do 1080i over component is because I want to match my 1366x768 resolution on the tv. Unfortunately the xbox 360 only outputs 1360x768 in vga mode but the fill mode on my tv makes it fill the screen.

I will tell you playing HALO 3 I noticed a significant difference between 720p through component and 1360x768 over vga. There is one game level in multiplayer that has a mutlilevel chamber with a energy levitator tunnel that lifts you to the next level. Using component it looked ok and had these energy emissions that you would see going through the portal. However when I got the hd vga cables it was a lot sharper. There was more detail than I had seen before. I could see individual energy sparkles that were washed out in the 720p component mode.


What I'm trying to say is there is nothing wrong with using the vga connection. You're only restriction will be hdcp material. For that your best bet is to use a dvi-hdmi cable. That is what i use for my vista pc and it works great for bluray discs.

[fabpozzi]

Good news! My TV has a 1280X720 native resolution (it's a Panasonic Plasma, series 80), so I would connect via VGA cable to it my new Dell laptop, putting the graphic card resolution to 720 lines. Should it work well enough, on your opinion?

[therock001]

Thank you guys for your answers.

A couple more questions.

A)An hdmi 2 dvi converter can be used both ways right?Like from a dvi output it cuts the sound and transmits video into an hdmi monitor,and from an hdmi output it cuts audio and transmits video into a dvi-d monitor right?

B)Other than that what is the quality of tha audio like?Does the gpu handle the audio decoding?

C)What's the differene in cable qualities?I was lookinat ome cables,and some no name costed 5 euros while the sony ones costed 25.Is it just the label of Sony or is there any quality involved?Will i have to consider quality upon purchasing the cable?

[jagabo]

A)An hdmi 2 dvi converter can be used both ways right?Like from a dvi output it cuts the sound and transmits video into an hdmi monitor,and from an hdmi output it cuts audio and transmits video into a dvi-d monitor right?

As far as I know.

B)Other than that what is the quality of tha audio like?Does the gpu handle the audio decoding?

If you asking about the graphics cards with an SPDIF input that goes to HDMI out, there is no audio processing on the card, the audio is just forwarded to the HDMI device.

There aren't many card that have this feature though. Here's one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301

C)What's the differene in cable qualities?I was lookinat ome cables,and some no name costed 5 euros while the sony ones costed 25.Is it just the label of Sony or is there any quality involved?Will i have to consider quality upon purchasing the cable?

For short runs (< 10 feet) inexpensive DVI/HDMI cables are fine. If the cable isn't working it will be very obvious. Unlike analog cables where the distortions are subtle to start and gradually get worse, digital cables are pretty much all or nothing. I use a 10 foot DVI->HDMI cable that cost about US$10.

[edDV]

Some overview observations.

To understand HDMI you need first to understand HDCP, the broadcast flag and the DRM strategic direction.

Technically HDMI is DVI-D plus digital audio plus a bidirectional control. The digital audio can be similar to S/PDIF, or simple PCM stereo or enhanced multichannel.

The strategic direction is to limit connections to HDMI for system interconnect. If HDCP + broadcast flag are fully implemented, HD video plus surround audio will only be possible over HDMI for HDCP flagged content. The flag can be implemented in levels. A lower level of security will continue to allow multi-channel optical or coax S/PDIF. At higher security, S/PDIF drops to simple stereo.

The long term direction is for the HD cable box, HDTV and DDR connections only in HDMI to fully secure HD + multichannel audio content. Control will be from a single unified remote. Multi-channel audio receivers need to be HDCP compliant or they too will be limited to stereo.

That is the direction they want to see. All it will take is Congress passing the Broadcast Flag authorization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
http://www.eff.org/issues/broadcast-flag

[yoda313]

@eddv - does that mean for 5.1+ audio you will be REQUIRED to have an hdmi receiver than if the flag is passed? That sucks.

I mean thankfully they are dropping to reasonable prices now it would stink to buy a new receiver just to get 5.1 for protection reasons.

[TooLFooL]

@eddv - does that mean for 5.1+ audio you will be REQUIRED to have an hdmi receiver than if the flag is passed? That sucks.

I mean thankfully they are dropping to reasonable prices now it would stink to buy a new receiver just to get 5.1 for protection reasons.

i was wondering the same thing, as i want to use the hdmi output of the xbox 360, but my surround reciever is only optical or coax. do we need to upgrade our surround??

[jagabo]

If they had the technology to run an encrypted digital connection directly into your head they'd probably require it.

[yoda313]

@eddv - does that mean for 5.1+ audio you will be REQUIRED to have an hdmi receiver than if the flag is passed? That sucks.

I mean thankfully they are dropping to reasonable prices now it would stink to buy a new receiver just to get 5.1 for protection reasons.

i was wondering the same thing, as i want to use the hdmi output of the xbox 360, but my surround reciever is only optical or coax. do we need to upgrade our surround??

That should be a seperate issue. Gaming isn't effected. Don't you have a seperate out for the fiber optic on the hdmi xbox? I only have the standard first release xbox 360 so I don't know.

As far as the ps3 I have there is a dedicated fiber out and I can use hdmi video to the tv but fiber optic to the surround sound. The only pain is I have to manually switch the audio settings when I want to just use the tv speakers over hdmi instead of fiber optic.

[TooLFooL]

the optical out is located on the back of the big plug with the component and composite outs. the hdmi plug is directly beneath that large one, so you can only use 1 or the other, not both at the same time.

as you said, gameplay is NOT affected, but you cannot playback anything in HD without the hdmi.

[yoda313]

the optical out is located on the back of the big plug with the component and composite outs. the hdmi plug is directly beneath that large one, so you can only use 1 or the other, not both at the same time.

Really? They didn't make a dedicated fiber out port? That sucks.

What do you mean you can't get hd without hdmi? You can get 1080i over component. I can get 1360x768 with the hdvga cable and that includes the big plug with the fiber optic split.

[edDV]

@eddv - does that mean for 5.1+ audio you will be REQUIRED to have an hdmi receiver than if the flag is passed? That sucks.

I mean thankfully they are dropping to reasonable prices now it would stink to buy a new receiver just to get 5.1 for protection reasons.

It depends on the level of copy protection specified by the content owner. They can specify S/PDIF 5.1 to pass or force it to stereo only. HDMI capable audio receivers mostly lack HDCP except for a few models. That means when HDCP encryption is enforced, these boxes just pass the HDMI to the TV. They can't extract the audio.

These "features" will be enforced gradually to control the revolt of the masses. First they need the enabling legislation from Congress and a President that will sign it.

They opted to turn off all HDCP for the first generation of Blu-Ray to get the format established. Just like the street corner drug dealer, the first few hits are free.