vegas/ffdshow/avidemux: avc-mp4 encoding for playback in Flash player

[mindplay.dk]

I've been trying out Vegas Movie Studio PE - it has the right feature set and price range for my needs, which is beginner's home video editing, from a camcorder, to put on my personal video blog in MP4 format with Flash.

I was disappointed to discover the restrictions on the MP4 exporter in this version of Vegas. Apparently, they expect you to shell out for the big version to get real MP4 encoding (descent resolution/bitrate) - features which are readily available in lots of free software.

Now I could just encode to another format, in a high bitrate, but since codecs are lossy, I would much prefer to sort out how to encode in one go.

So my idea is as follows:

1. Encoding to AVI with Vegas, using ffdshow as codec - configuring it to use x.264 implementation of the AVC codec.

2. Using AviDemux to demux the AVI file and recompile the audio and video streams into an MP4 file.

There is no loss from just remuxing to another wrapper format, obviously, so this way it should be possible to encode larger, higher-bitrate MP4 video without breaking any rules

It should be possible, but I haven't been able to get it to really work. The Flash player doesn't accept just anything, apparently it's MP4 support is quite specific and somewhat limited.

But with ffdshow, I configured the encoder for H.264, using the "AVC1" FOURCC, which I believe is the one that Flash expects?

I'm using one-pass, average bitrate for starters - this is the simplest kind of encode, so that's what I'll start out with and see if I can get past that.

I'm unsure how to interleave the audio and video? I've configured Vegas to "interleave every frame" - I don't know if this will make a difference in terms of compatiblity with the Flash player?

I'm using 25 FPS (PAL) at 1:1 pixel ratio, and non-interlaced (progressive scan).

As for the audio, from what I could read on Adobe's site, they expect AAC in MP4 files. This is not available in this version of Vegas - anyone know if MP3 will be accepted by Flash in an MP4 file?

Now with AviDemux, I need to convert the AVI file to an MP4. First, I was trying to do this with AviDemux's "MP4" format setting - but with no results, it wouldn't play.

I had more luck with the "PSP" setting, which must also be an MP4 format of sorts? I actually managed to get a clip that played in Flash, but it sort of whizzed by - 15 seconds of video played back in about 1 second.

Examining the headers of MP4 files that play back in Flash in a hex-editor, and comparing them to the MP4 files I produced, the ones made with the "PSP" setting does seem to resemble Flash-compatible MP4 files more closely than the ones made with the "MP4" setting.

So that's where I am.

By the way, I'm a programmer and generally know a lot about computers and software. I do not know much about video, however - so feel free to treat me like an idiot

I know the basics - I understand what codecs are, and I comprehend how video and audio streams can be multiplexed into some container format, such as AVI or MP4.

Beyond that, I don't know much.

Any help, suggestions, ideas would be greatly appreciated!

It would be great if I could use Vegas for my home videos, without having to pay for the professional version - that is completely overkill for my needs. If we can figure this out together, I will write a step-by-step tutorial and put it up on the web somewhere for others to enjoy.

I'm certain there must be some way to make this work...

[aedipuss]

at the bottom of the listed page there are some free h264 encoders you could try.

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/video-encoders-h264-vc1

[mindplay.dk]

Yes, there are plenty of free encoders. That would be easy enough.

The whole point is, I want to encode directly - first of all, I'm going to be producing my video clips on a laptop, which would take forever if I have to encode everything twice. Secondly, two lossy codecs in succession is just not a good idea.

Unfortunately, AviDemux does not seem to help. I've tried also with the unofficial x264 vfw codec now - results are different, but still not luck. It appears to play in flash, but a 15 second clip plays back as 15 seconds of blackness...

What comes out of AviDemux when muxing to MP4 does not appear to resemble anything that comes out of the MainConcept or Sony encoders... the headers look way different...

[aedipuss]

instead of avidemux have you tried vlc? it will convert to mp4 with aac audio. the results play fine in quicktime player.

[mindplay.dk]

I tried with VLC, but as far as I can tell, it only transcodes - it doesn't remux.

And I need it to play in Flash, not in Quicktime - I really wouldn't want to play anything in quicktime

[guns1inger]

How about a third alternative ? You might try the Debugmode Frameserver, and frameserve the video and audio directly from the Vegas timeline out to the encoder of your choice. According to it's home page it has been tested with Vegas 8 and below. There is no mention of it being limited to the Pro version.

[mindplay.dk]

That's a great idea! I know from a friend that encoding MP4s, that are compatible with Flash, is possible with MEncoder.

I am familiar with AviSynth, but I had never heard about Debugmode Frameserver - looks great.

I've never run MEncoder myself before though. I've installed the frameserver, and that seems to work fine. However, MEncoder won't do anything, as the codecs appear to be missing.

Any idea where I can get the Windows binaries of the x264 encoder codec and the FAAC thing?

[aedipuss]

try clicking the link to x264 encoder. the red items on this page are links. it will take you to it's tool page here. listed in the downloads is the codec.

[mindplay.dk]

But it's an EXE file? I tried copying that to the "MEncoder/codecs" folder, but no luck - it still says it can't find the x264 codec... I imagine it needs a DLL?

[aedipuss]

sorry i didn't follow the codec link on the the x264 encoder page. it seems the codec itself is no longer where it used to be. i'll look around and see if i can't come up with another.

[aedipuss]

try here

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/x264_Video_Codec.htm

[mindplay.dk]

Just more links to the CLI version, as far as I can see?

[aedipuss]

oy how about this one

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Koepi_XviD.htm

but if the installed cli works the codec must have been installed and available to other programs. maybe needs a re-boot?

[mindplay.dk]

I've been trying with MediaCoder as well ... it has MEncoder in the distribution, and the x264 CLI EXE - still no library...

but that doesn't seem to work either - this tiny AVI file that comes out of Frameserver doesn't really seem to be accepted by any software I could find...

I've tried MediaCoder using an uncompressed AVI exported from Vegas - this works, and produces a working MP4 that played in Flash without problems!

Do you know for a fact that MEncoder will work with Frameserver?

What is the basic theory behind Frameserver anyway? This tiny file obviously isn't the video - how is the application supposed to obtain the actual video frames? Does the application need to support Frameserver explicitly?

[aedipuss]

try opening mencoder and dragging and dropping the little file on it.

[mindplay.dk]

What would that achieve? it's a command-line program, requiring lots more options than just the input filename... and no, that doesn't work work.

[aedipuss]

does the little file end in .avs? if it does some encoders use that file as a script to encode with.

try making a batch file with all your options in command line to mencoder and dropping the .avs on the .bat.

[aedipuss]

better yet get the front end gui for mencoder - automen 4.6. then open it set all the program paths, and then drag the little file into it. you'll be able to set all the options that way.

[mindplay.dk]

The little file ends in AVI, not AVS - it's not Avisynth, it's Debugmode Frameserver.

Tried Automen - but it's just a front-end to Mencoder (a very nice front-end though) and it can't read the tiny AVI file anymore than Mencoder itself could...

[aedipuss]

same basic thing. if you open the little avi with another encoder it will be frameserved.

it works. i used it with vegas pro8 and frameserved the little output avi into cce.

tried it with mencoder/automen gui and couldn't get it to work. don't know why.

[guns1inger]

You have to have Vegas open in the background when you open the small avi file. As your encoder reads form the avi file, the frameserver will send it more data. If you create the file and shut down Vegas, there will be nothing in the file to process.

[mindplay.dk]

You have to have Vegas open in the background when you open the small avi file. As your encoder reads form the avi file, the frameserver will send it more data. If you create the file and shut down Vegas, there will be nothing in the file to process.

I understood that much. But it doesn't seem like the small file, or the way that the frames are delivered to the application using the small file, is compatible with all applications. I've managed to read the frames from one or two applications, including a player, but it won't read in any of the encoders I've tried that can do mp4... most of them seem to be based on the same thing anyway, just different front-ends for the same underlying applications...