DVD Recorder Tuner

[jh76]

Hi. I am new to the forum, so please excuse any gross errors.
I am trying to get a DVD recorder to replace my old VCR, and there is one feature that my VCR has that is very important to me and I cannot seem to find any DVD recorders with it, so I don´t know if there are any at all...
The feature I am looking for is SAP (Second Audio Program). I am from Argentina and a lot of cable channels (TNT, TCM, Discovery Channel, Cartoon Network, etc) broadcast in spanish but if you have a SAP capable TV or VCR you can listen to the original audio stream (and record it if your VCR has SAP too). I am looking for this on a DVD recorder and cannot find a single one, with or without hardrive, so I am left wondering, do they even MAKE DVD recorders with SAP tuners? If there are any, could you please tell me the brand/model? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance.

One other thing. I was interested in a BGH HDD DVD recorder (BD811RWHDD), which does not appear to have SAP support, and I would like to know if it allows you to record from a DVD to the HD, because there is a Philips model (160 Gb HD) that does not allow this very basic feature for some reason...

[wabjxo]

I know in the U.S., the Philips DVDR3575H/37 has SAP. From page 34 of its manual:

1 Press [SETUP] and use [K / L] to
select “General Setting”, then press
[OK].
“General Setting” menu will appear.

2 Use [K / L] to select “Channel”, then
press [OK].
“Channel” menu will appear.

3 Use [K / L] to select “TV Audio
Select”, then press [OK].

4 Use [K / L] to select “Stereo” or
“SAP”, then press [OK].
TV Audio Select
Stereo
SAP

Stereo:
Outputs main-audio.

SAP (secondary audio program):
Outputs sub-audio.

5 Press [SETUP] to exit.

Don't know what equivalent Philips might be in Argentina, but if checking for SAP, it won't be in the specs but rather in the Manual page titled something like "Selecting TV Audio (Analog)".

I think the "Analog" is important cuz I don't think digital tuners/TV channels have SAP... their Closeed Captions are even different and generally unrecordable on most, if not all, current DVDRs.

The U.S. FCC is very concerned about this and is asking for equipment suppliers to make provisions for digital CC more universally available. TVs are pretty well up-to-date in this regard and will DISPLAY digital CC, even tho an attached DVDR won't record those CC. My Philips 3575 has all sorts of text settings for digital CC, but they're only for DISPLAY on my TV... it won't record them... they even disappear from screen once the unit starts recording.

Commercial DVDs (movies) usually have a setup option to play with SAP regardless of what unit is playing the movie.

It's a very tricky area right now!

[edDV]

Most of Argentina uses PAL-N* so you probably can't use USA NTSC model tuners. You are probably limited to Argentina specific models.

* see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL#PAL-Nc

[samijubal]

I don't know where you're finding DVD recorders that don't do SAP. I've been using them for 7 years and don't remember one that didn't support SAP. It probably isn't listed in the specs because most people never use it. See if you can find the owners manual for the recorder you're interested in and it will say if it supports SAP.

[jh76]

Hi. I have checked every single model that´s available in the argentinian market (and some that are not "officially" available but that you can buy at local online auction sites) and not a single one of them mentions SAP in their specs (I have checked the company sites as well as online reviews and the like). I managed to get a hold of manuals for 2 Philips models (3455H/55 with a 160 Gbs HD and the 3390 without HD) and it doesn´t mention SAP anywhere...

[samijubal]

Look at page 12 #15 in the 3455H manual.

AUDIO
– In tuner mode, toggles between stereo,
mono and the Secondary Audio Program
modes.

Again, I've never seen a DVD recorder without SAP. Maybe it's different where you are though.

[usually_quiet]

SAP is part of the MTS audio standard, which is used only in the US, Mexico, Canada, and Japan, as far as I know. I wouldn't think that DVD recorders made for other markets would have the ability to record something that is part of MTS. I know my 3-year-old Panasonic does record SAP, although one must choose between recording the main sound channel and the SAP channel unless one uses DVD-RAM discs.

[Edit] Just a thought... Have you checked the manuals for the DVD recorders you are interested in? Not all features are necessarily listed in the specs. Check the manufacturer's website. Panasonic has manuals available online in PDF format on their US website, and perhaps the Panasonic website serving Argentina will too. These PDF versions are easily searched for information.

[jh76]

Hi. Like I mentioned in my previous post I have been able to get a hold of the PDF manuals for 2 Philips models, 3455H/55 with a 160 Gb HD, and the 3390 without HD (I could not find the manuals for any of the other recorders available here (BGH BD811RWHDD, Sony RDR-GX350, Noblex DVR 5406U).
Following samijubal´s advice I was able to find the mention of SAP in both Philips models, though they were very easy to miss. The 3455 is somewhat out of my price range ($ 1600 pesos, more than I make in a month). The 3390 has a more decent price ($680), though can only find it online and with 3 months warranty. I have read some mixed reviews about the 3390 (the same goes for the 3455, I might fork out the $1600 if it is really worth it). What do you guys think? Are they worth the money? Which one would give me more "bang for my buck"? I am mostly interested in the recording capabilities and the video quality of the recorded programs, I have a really good Pioneer DVD player with DivX support for use as my main player. Thanks again for all the feedback BTW.

[usually_quiet]

Hi. Like I mentioned in my previous post I have been able to get a hold of the PDF manuals for 2 Philips models, 3455H/55 with a 160 Gb HD, and the 3390 without HD (I could not find the manuals for any of the other recorders available here (BGH BD811RWHDD, Sony RDR-GX350, Noblex DVR 5406U).

How hard did you look? The Sony RDR-GX350 manual is on their Latin American website in PDF format. I found it in 2 minutes. There is link on this page for the manual: http://esupport.sony.com/LA/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=RDRGX350&LOC=3

Never heard of the BGH or Noblex brands. They may be made by somebody else and re-badged for your market. Find out who really makes them, and if it is a different company, and you may find help at that website. Support is where you often find the manuals if there is not a link on the page for the model itself.

[jh76]

Hi usually_quiet, in some cases I only looked in the company page (for the Sony it was sonystyle.com.ar I think), in any case I did not spend much time looking for it because for some reason it only reads Region 2 DVDs , which makes no sense to me... :S since here we use Region 4 DVDs

To everyone else:
I am still interested in your opinion on the Philips 3455H/55 and the 3390 since I have now found that they DO have SAP, but like I said, I have read many mixed reviews, especially regarding some limitations on the 3455 (some about the recording quality, some about the lack of some basic features, interface, another about the inability to copy from a DVD to the HD, which is just silly to me and a big minus, don´t know if that´s common for al HD DVD recorders...). Thanks again

[usually_quiet]

I looked at the Argentine website, and since it appears that this Sony model is being officially distributed in Argentina, it could just be a mistake on the website. I would verify with your Sony dealer, or Sony, that region code 2 is programmed into the RDR-GX350 before eliminating it from consideration for that reason.

Even if it's true, and the Sony is the best choice available in other respects, there may be a way to change the region code because it is part of the firmware for the DVD drive. You may write to Sony support and find out if they can help you, since they are distributing their product in a country that uses a different region code than the one that has been programmed into it.