why you should use a virus protection program

[tigerwolf]

you know I run across all the time people that don't use anti-virii programs, don't think they need them, or state they don't download stuff.
I love when I come across someone that is having problems and low and behold they have a virus, oh and the lovely part is if you burn software given you don't know when the virus first appeared you have to go through all the burns and see if any files on those disks got infected as well. You want a scarier aspect, I've seen companies that don't use any form of anti-virii protection, its not just the average joe. Anyway, well here are just a few of thousands of reasons why you need one, just a look at a couple of virii from 2001, source: cnet:

CodeRed: Most Hyped -- Code Red was a shoo-in for the "most hyped virus" award, garnering predictions of an "Internet Armageddon" when first discovered. In fact, CodeRed became the little virus that didn't.

Nimda: Most Overlooked -- Not only the most prevalent of virus of the year, Nimda used the most advanced mechanism for spread employing several vectors of infection. Nimda exploited security vulnerabilities to spread via the Internet, email, and networks and during its reign it was harder to answer the question "who became infected" than "who did not".

Sircam: Most Disclosing -- Discovered spreading in email in July 2001, Sircam lifted legitimate documents from the system, wrapping them with its infection and mass-mailed them to others. As a result, tens of thousands found their personal and often confidential information blatantly displayed to anyone whose email address resided on their system.

BadTrans.b: Most Controversial -- BadTrans.b was a late arrival, first making its rounds in November 2001. However, it quickly gained a spot in the top five list by using compelling attachment names such as "Sorry_about_yesterday" and "YOU_ARE_FAT!". Behind the scenes, BadTrans.b dropped a Trojan that logged every key stroke to a server hosted by Monkeybrains.net. The owner of the ISP hosting the server now refuses to turn over the database to the FBI for investigation, but felt free to share it with a reporter from a San Francisco newspaper.

Sulfnbk.exe: Most Damaging Hoax -- While the intentions of the creator of the Sulfnbk hoax may never be clear, the end effect was thousands of users deleting a legitimate system file from their computer. Fortunately, the file isn't critical to the operation of the computer, but the ensuing queries to help desks impacted service for several days in mid-May 2001. Indeed, it would be fair to describe the Sulfnbk hoax as the first manually-driven virus.

Kak and Hybris: Most Persistent -- The Hybris virus better known as "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" and the Kak worm are both carry-overs from the year 2000. In fact, Kak topped the virus charts in 2000 and maintained a weaker but still steady presence throughout 2001. Both viruses continue to plague, though fortunately on an ever-declining scale.

------------------------------
if you don't use protection you never know what your going to get.

oh and for those of you that don't wanna pop the cash for an anti-virii program then check out these free ones, in my opinion avg is the best free one going, and big fix is just a must have program.

AVG:
http://www.grisoft.com/html/us_downl.htm#FREE

bigfix, not really a virus program, but a must have prevention tool:
http://www.bigfix.com/website/consumers/process.html

escorcher:
http://www.escorcher.com/

avast:
http://www.asw.cz/avahome.htm

nortons virus encyclopedia if you want more reasons:
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/vinfodb.html

and of course a must visit site mcafee, they have glossary and more:
http://www.mcafee.com/anti-virus/default.asp


next week the importance of a good firewall. LOL. Just kidding folks, but do take the virus stuff serious as well as your internet connection though viruses pose a much bigger problem, in my opinion, for the average user.

[Greg12]

Virus protection is nessisary as viri can destory (literally) your computer

[adamthole]

I use Norton 2002, but I would just like to note that virus protection, wont protect you against things like "Sulfnbk.exe" Common Sense, and a little research will though.

[tigerwolf]

Adam I must agree on that one. LOL. I remember getting an e-mail from my uncle about that and I had to send him an e-mail back telling him how to restore Sulfnbk.exe. which he had to e-mail to everyone else he had sent a message to.
That's why I mentioned the norton encyclopedia and mcafee site, if when you hear of a virus or receive an e-mail about one, even if you aren't computer savy you can at least research and confirm if its a real threat or not.

[bigmicka]

if you dont get mail and dont open attachments and are carefull with what programs you load, then you dont need a virus scanner. just by not using outlook and any other number of programs you can stop your computer from ever getting infected, without the need for a virus scanner.

in the end all it does is slow your computer down. if you select all files for scan, it scans your entire file for viruses, so if you where doing a vob, it would scan the 1gb just to make sure. using up cpu cycles that could be effectively used somewhere else.

mic

[tigerwolf]

in the end all it does is slow your computer down. if you select all files for scan, it scans your entire file for viruses, so if you where doing a vob, it would scan the 1gb just to make sure. using up cpu cycles that could be effectively used somewhere else.

mic

we have a winner, oops, well if you are worried about it slowing your computer, then get an anti-virus program kill the resident stuff and set it up to run a complete scan say once a week, at least you'll have some protection, and sure if you completely isolate yourself from the world you'll be fine. But even downloading programs from a known source or company doesn't guarantee virii free. do you share files at all, bring work home, or etc?

[dumwaldo]

sorry but i gotta agree with bigmicka on this one. an educated user is far better than any virus software around. if people would just stop using e-mail clients that support script hosting then maybe 95% of all viruses could be stoped. i even download for usenet newsgroups with no virus protection.

take some basic precautions...

#1 ALWAYS SHOW ALL FILES TYPES AND EXTENSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! i can not stress this enough. the number one security hazard i see on almost every computer i see if hidden files and extensions. you MUST know what the file extensions are and what they mean.

#2 know your icons. some file extensions can not be shown by windows regardless of the option configuration you have. some need registry hacks in order to show. it is possible to have a file showing a false extension even if you have windows set to show all extensions but it is not possible to get your computer to fake the icon so know what icons match up to what file types. if you get a .jpg that has a notepad looking icon you might want to leave it alone.

#3 that program you have been using to retrieve your e-mail, use it one last time to set a forwarding address and send it to the recycle bin. get a web based e-mail account. services like yahoo and hotmail and tons of others offer free web based e-mail. in many cases they even have features like automatic virus scanning and spam blocking. outlook and eudora are probably responsible for the propogation of more viruses than all other software in computer history combined so why would you run either one of them?

#4 run a good firewall if you are on a broadband connection. if you know how to understand the things you are letting in then all you need to do is make sure nothing is getting in that you dont know about. you dont have to spend big money for a good firewall. tiny firewall and zone alarm are both excellent firewalls and completely free for private use.

#5 do check for viruses periodically. if you open a search engine and put in online virus scan and you will see there are many places to get scanned for viruses without installing permenant software in your computer. you dont need auto protect but it is wise to have the occasional check up.

IMHO for the most part antivirus software is a trade off. you do trade off some aspects of performance for that security blanket and in many cases it is a false sense of security. if you fail to update your software regularly it becomes pointless to even run it. even if you do update regularly the update does not come out untill AFTER a new virus is discovered leaving a window of opportunity while you falsly think you are protected.

if this post makes no sense to you then you are a good candidate to use virus protection. the performance differences are so negligable that the average user wont notice and the added security can do you well. if you read this post and it moade complete sense to you then maybe you dont really need any virus protection. each person needs to evaluate their situation and decide.

now pardon me while i go check off that no vote

[bigmicka]

thanks for the backup waldo.

newbies get a virus scanner and save yourself alot of time.

if you have any knowledge about pc's you dont need one.

plain and simple.

mic

[d4n13l]

I never use anti-virus software.

[bilbogod]

What's a virus???

[d4n13l]

Almost forgot this token one liner...
The best anti virus software is a non MS OS, LOL.
There are a few UNIX virii but most rely on a poorly configured system/newbie-user to work.
Also not forgetting that anti virus software need to be constantly updated to be effective; how many people with anti virus software update it everyday?
I would reason that regularly backing up is more worthwhile than anti virus software. As backing up is encouraged anyway, it always saves your ass (Maybe just scanning your back up data for virii will suffice and give people peace of mind). Other than that, choosing safe/secure browsing options is a simple way to prevent some virii infecting your system.
I wouldnt say that anti-virus software is a waste of time, most users will need it I guess. Some more seasoned users however know how to go without and still be safe.
Having have never got a virus myself in the past 3 years of being online, I survive without it.
/ME One lucky SOB.

[tigerwolf]

What's the ratio of uneducated user to educated user though. I mean most of the people I deal with aren't computer savy at all. They use the programs they use and don't care to learn anything more. Oh and d4n13l you aren't really that lucky, I've been downloading from bbses, internet and etc for about 12 years now and have gotten 2 viruses in that time. I also have to agree that using outlook or any e-mail that uses scripting is about the worst thing you can do. I have never used outlook and recommend that people don't use it. I have to agree that majority of viruses get passed in e-mail. I get so accustom to dealing with people that don't know shit about shit and still have the invincible attitude, which irritates the hell out of me. Which is actually what prompted me posting this topic, LOL.

Though I do have to say that you do need to scan your computer for viruses, with an up to date virus scanner, or as dumwaldo has stated with an online scanner, in my opinion weekly, because while you may be experienced, noticing things and etc. There is always that chance you missed something, or the virus happens to be that good or already gotten into your MBR, etc.

Even an educated user knows he/she is not invicible. I still hold that you need to scan for virii with some form of program whether it be web based or not, at least periodically. And if you are a company you definitely need one. By the way out of curiousity how do you know you've never gotten a virus if you've never run a virus scanner? You can't tell me that you are familiar with every virus out there, I will give that many are quite similiar, but there are still quite a number that have their unique traits to them.

Basically if you have any knowledge about computers you know you need to run one at least periodically.

[Montag63]

The main reason I try to maintain an updated Virus scanner is other family members who use my PC. My wife doesn't quite understand why she has to delete a suspicious email with an attachment before opening it first to see who its from!

[d4n13l]

"Basically if you have any knowledge about computers you know you need to run one at least periodically."

Not if you run Linux dude.


BTW what is the deal with MACs and virii?

[d4n13l]

I meant to say more...

By the way out of curiousity how do you know you've never gotten a virus if you've never run a virus scanner? You can't tell me that you are familiar with every virus out there, I will give that many are quite similiar, but there are still quite a number that have their unique traits to them."

Good point. Well, I do have anti virus software (lame ass AVG ) but i hardly ever install it - I use it VERY occasionally: I occasionally dance with the devil too, but I am not a devil worshipper. LOL
There must be tens (100's even?) of thousands of Windoze virri, nobody knows them all. I could create a new one today if I wanted... wanna see if your anti virus will detect it? LOL. Better not, virii programmers are the lowest common denominator... after spammers that is.
Which brings me to my next point about anti virus software - updating it. Anti virus software is only as good as its last update, some people think it doesnt need updating to work effectively. They may as well learn how to decrease the risk of infection and bin their anti virus software if that is the case. It is cheaper.

I would stick my neck out and say that I have never had a detrimental virus infect my system, at the very least. You are right, no one is invincible where windows virri are concerned. But my track record is pretty good so far, so I have no need to start constantly scanning my system now. I simply cant be bothered with anti virus software, it doesnt make a crap of difference to me personally.
How I regard anti-virus software may lie in the fact with my cavalier attitude towards my windows system - I dont really care about it. If I formatted my HD then I could have an identical system up in a small amount of time.

Basically if you have any knowledge about computers you know you need to run one at least periodically.

Yep - Just happens that my periodically is a *very* long time (months).

There is always that chance you missed something, or the virus happens to be that good or already gotten into your MBR, etc.

My MBR is alarmed. If anything attempts to write to it, I can accept it or refuse it.

I get so accustom to dealing with people that don't know shit about shit and still have the invincible attitude, which irritates the hell out of me.

LOL. I guess I dont help you out any here do I? I dont have an invincible attitude anyway, I just plain dont care.
I know my shit; which if my system was critical, I would use anti virus a lot more dont you worry.

[pacmania_2001]

"Anti virus software is only as good as its last update"

No it isnt, have a look at Norton Anti-Virus. It uses technology that searches for virus characteristics so even if the virus hasnt been detected by them it can still stop it in most cases.

Also about updating, if you are on broadband like I am you just have to set so that once a week or so it updates itself in the background without you having to do anything and it takes all of about 3 minutes to do.

Being educated still isnt an excuse not to have one. I have had a number of viruses come through simply by visiting a website. It doesnt help by not opening sus attachments. Some viruses these day dont even require you to open the email, just preview it.

I would rather wait that fraction of a second longer so that norton can scan the files rather than having to spend days trying to get your computer back to the way it was after a virus program screws it and apologising to friends and family that you sent them a virus.

[tigerwolf]

I knew I saw an article about linux/unix and viruses. I finally came across it again, so just for d4n13l. we won't meantion the Winux Virus either.
I'll give its an older article, but still.

http://www.cybersoft.com/whitepapers/papers/networks.shtml

oh also another free anti-virus software I just came across, don't know how well it works yet, but will pass it along for kicks.

http://www.free-av.com/

Also from another article which I can't locate currently, but will keep looking for it said linux/unix virii increased 7 fold last year.

[d4n13l]

I only said about it in the first place as one reason for not using anti virus software. I mean, if I can run windows without anti virus then why bother for Linux which has better inbuilt protection from viruses spreading easily and also at a much lower risk of being targeted/infected?
Anyways, you are taking my words out of context. I never said that UNIX viruses dont exist, all you have done so far is prove they do. I am only 21, young enough to have grown up with Linux knowing that viruses exist for it (they even got a mention in the first Linux manual I bought=). You older guys may have grown up with that myth, but not me, LOL.

BTW, that article you gave the link for, I have read it before. But, ahem, "Copyright © August 1995, February 1996 by Peter V. Radatti.". Old news perhaps?
Although, I gotta hand it too him,

Even with the current problems and the promise of more sophisticated problems and solutions in the future, the one thing that I believe to be certain is that Unix or Unix-like systems will continue to provide a pay back that is well worth the cost of operating them.

Wonder what he would say about windows?
ROTF...
8)

[resnullius]

Well bigmicka i don't konw u so i can''t juge how much you konw about computers, but i'd say the problem about your statement is that there's alot of ppl how think they know alot about computers and they don't. Anyways there's an old saying that says better safe than sorry...
You never know

[dphirschler]

Got bit by Nimba last year. Ugly one it was... Had to f-disk to kill it.

I know how to be careful and how to avoid viruses, but it got me anyhow. The sucky part is I HAD virus protection. I had just not been vigilent at keeping the definition tables up-to-date. Never again...


Darryl

[tigerwolf]

Anyways, you are taking my words out of context. I never said that UNIX viruses dont exist, all you have done so far is prove they do. I am only 21, young enough to have grown up with Linux knowing that viruses exist for it (they even got a mention in the first Linux manual I bought=). You older guys may have grown up with that myth, but not me, LOL.

Yep I know they were out of context, but it was fun to see what you would say.

Hey hey, watch the older guys comment.

I mean try something like "You more matured guys may have grown up with that myth". See how much better that sounds. :P

[d4n13l]

LMAO.
Hehe, you cant troll a troll without the troll knowing that he is being trolled for.

I came across this "virus" by pure coincidence the other day:

> From: Willy Smith [mailto:numatico@sol.racsa.co.cr]
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 12:53 PM
> To: linuxplc@linuxplc.org
> Subject: LinuxPLC: Linux Virus Alert
>
>
> YOU HAVE JUST RECEIVED THE LINIX VIRUS!!!
>
> This virus works on the honor system:
>
> If you're running a variant of linux, please forward this message
> to everyone you know, then delete a bunch of your own files at random.
>
>
> Willy Smith
> Numatico SA
> Costa Rica
>
> _______________________________________________
> LinuxPLC mailing list
> LinuxPLC@linuxplc.org
> http://linuxplc.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxplc
>

LOL, I love nerd humour.

[dumwaldo]

just so you know that is specifically a linux virus. i deleted 27 random files from my system folder and it seems like it didnt make any difference. i guess its just linux that doesnt put thousands of useless files on your hard drive. that wouldnt be a problem if you had a windows box.

BTW anybody know how to make that virus autorun?

[d4n13l]

hehe
:P

[damnim]

Well I just did a word search of this topic and only once did the word "trojan" appear "dropped a Trojan that logged". You experts who think that you can get by without a virus scanner are going to be in for some trouble someday.

Virus scanners don't just look for viruses they also look for "trojans" and access to your computer.

If your box is not ever connected to the internet and you use only the OS and a couple of programs, maybe. I say maybe because I have some commercial discs that I scanned and found the win 95 virus.

Better safe then sorry!!!

[d4n13l]

LOL

[tigerwolf]

here's one for you, My buddy is using IE6 with the latest vulnerability patches in tack. Yet he had an exe, trojan virus, attempt to access his mbr from the ie cache. Which of course means that IE still isn't secure. Go figure.