New Blocking Signal from Dish?

[spire]

Hoping someone might know if something changed within the last week. Been using Dish for years and all of a sudden about 3-4 days ago my DVR is saying everything that I usually record and sometimes archive to DVD is copy protected and can not be recorded. At first it was saying they couldn't be recorded to DVD and last night for the first time it wouldn't allow me to record certain parts of shows at all. I'm not attempting to record anything I haven't recorded in the past successfully.

I'm using a Toshiba RD-XS35SU.

What's going on? Is there some new blocking signal Dish is using? Any thoughts or input would be appreciated.

[SCDVD]

If Dish is pulling some slime, I'll be calling my local cable provider this evening.

[TBoneit]

MY guess is that now they are rolling out the External hard drive support for the VIP622/722 models they have been forced by the content providers to turn on the broadcast flag. The flag may be a copy once and in that case DVRing it may be the once. I have no idea if something TBC has any effect on that sort of thing.

If I had to guess it is something that is inserted into teh video as it is being sent and thus old videos would still record and new ones could.

You could do a search here or other DBS forumns and see people complaining about the same problem with DirecTv and cable companies.

I watched teh Tech Chat lastnight and with reference to the External Hard drive for the 622/722 models it was brought up that when you put something on the external drive it is removed from the internal and if you put it back on the internal it is removed from the external. The workaround for that being if it is a HBO for example with multiple showings DVR it twice, move one to the External and leave the other on the internal. This move only was stated to be due to the providers requirements. This to me sounds like they had to implement the broadcast flag too.

SCDVD pulling somethng? Nope my guess is that they were forced by the providers who are totally paranoid that someone will copy their stuff.

[Seeker47]

MY guess is that now they are rolling out the External hard drive support for the VIP622/722 models they have been forced by the content providers to turn on the broadcast flag. The flag may be a copy once and in that case DVRing it may be the once. I have no idea if something TBC has any effect on that sort of thing.

You could do a search here or other DBS forumns and see people complaining about the same problem with DirecTv and cable companies.

Weren't the Toshiba DVRs reported to be unusually sensitive to this issue -- to the tune of many false positives ? So, maybe your guess is correct, maybe not.

A relative has a DirecTV + Pioneer DVR setup, and so far there has been no problem recording there. (But I know that is subject to change at any time.) And no sign of it here, with TW digital cable.If DirecTV has been doing this, they can't have been doing the same thing everywhere. Or else there may be some difference as regards the SD vs. HD service, and their respective boxes. I had some personal interest in possibly subscribing to Dish in the future, because of their reportedly lower degree of compression on many channels, but if they are doing this now, that interest might evaporate.

In another VH thread, someone mentioned that there are people who have encountered this (likely presence of the BF) issue, and people who have one of the better TBCs, but that so far they have not been the same people, otherwise we would have some definitive info by now regarding whether or not this is an effective countermeasure. (Even if it is, it may never be a popular or a widespread countermeasure, since these gizmos tend to run $300.+.) I have a TBC-1000 now, so I'm just waiting for one of the providers that affects me to pull something like this, and then I'll know. This TBC does not handle any connections better than S-Video, however . . . .

[TBoneit]

I haven't seen it myself so it could be a false positive. OTOH I don't do much to DVD either. I set one going recorded a couple of weeks ago. Which would neither confirm or eliminate it as a issue. My DVD recorder is a Pioneer 531h which I always thought was sensative to macrovision and such. MAybe the Toshiba is sensative to that and not the BF?

Personally I like my dish HD DVR and now that I can archive on a USB drive, Not extractable BTW, I may do even fewer DVDs. I'm looking at running out to BB and grabbing a couple of their on sale 500Gig Externals this week. From last nights tech chat it looks like I can run several, 1 at a time so I can label one Mysterys, one comedies and one TV series, etc. and organize them that way. Way it looks to set up I have to manually decide what to move to external so I can organize easily. Vs the DirecTV ESATA external drive that replaces the internal so everything has to be set up again at each swap, and precludes orgnizing by content.

Time will tell. I'm still waiting for the software download that enables the external storage.

TBC-1000 sounds like my TBC too. I origianlly got it as mu first DVD recorder would stop recording at dropouts in the tape.

[SatStorm]

It is time - if you ask me - to learn about the SkyStar cards, the phoenix smartmouses and ProgDVB (with some plug ins).

There is nothing better than the real thing...

[TBoneit]

Well last night I did a test recording of HBO SD & HD to my Pioneer and it didn't complain. Caveat warning. I didn't try this morning after the firmware upgrade so that may have changed. However now I can add external hard drives and archive in HD, Whee!

I'm guessing at the price depending on the sale price, however I'm thinking $2 to $3 an hour for external storage to store HD.

I'll be playing with it tonight using an old no longer used external drive.

[ejai]

It's the Toshiba recorder, I own one and it does the same thing. They are sensitive to copyrighted material. You can use a video enhancer such as Sima products to bypass the error messages.

[ebenton]

If it *is* the Toshiba recorder, and it used to work, but now it doesn't, and you haven't changed anything, it might be some external hardware like cables or even the dish itself that may need adjustment, replacement and/or cleaning to improve the signal quality.

[spire]

Thank you all for the feedback and discussion.

ejai,
Mine has only been doing this for a week. How long has yours been doing it?
Can you please give me more details regarding the Suma products you mentioned? In laymen terms please.

ebenton,
I'm not sure I understand your response. The problem is that is is working too well! It's not a case of it not being capable of recording. It's that it's obviously receiving and now detecting signals that are telling it that the shows are copy protected. I'm not even talking movie channels at all which I do not have. I'm talking HGTV and Home and Garden, TLC, ESPN, etc.!

Really? No one out there has coincidentally experienced this suddenly within the last week? If you have links to other discussions on the topic at other forums, please post the URLS.

Also, I'm not familiar with the acronyms being used in this thread. What do TBC & DBS stand for please?

Thanks!

[ebenton]

When ejai used the term "video enhancer" which would be used to stabilize and clarify a video signal, I assumed that the issue was noise or some other extraneous signal that your recorder was interpreting as copy protection.
If that's not it, then ignore me.

[TBoneit]

TBC is a time base corrector, As it happens correcting the timebase also corrects or flaws in the signal.
More here:
https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?T#Time%20Base%20Corrector,%20TBC

DBS Direct Broadcast Satellite. For example inthe US DirecTV and Dishnetwork

[spire]

ebenton,

Ah, that explanation makes a huge difference in terms of interpretation.

[Seeker47]

Can you please give me more details regarding the Suma products you mentioned? In laymen terms please.

Sima had two "enhancer" models that I'm aware of: the CT-2 (about $75. retail), and the CT-200 (about $150. ?). I have the CT-200, and was not impressed with it. It is not a TBC. (Which brings up the question of just what is it good for ?) The actual TBCs most discussed here -- the ones whose prices are not ridiculously far out of reach -- at least on the used market -- are the DataVideo 1000 (around $400. retail, these days), and the AVT-8710 (can't recall the mfr., but this one goes new for around $225. now). There are some other gizmos, like the Grex filter, that probably are not TBCs, but which claim to solve your copy problems. These would all insert into the recording chain between your cable / sat box (or, if no cable box, right after the cable feed into the room) and the recorder.

If you search on keywords like "TBC" or "broadcast flag", you should find a bunch of threads on the subject here.

[NiteLite]

Might be the Toshiba or it could be a regional thing with Dish, maybe? I say because I use a Pioneer 640H-s DVR and it has no problems except some "live" events on HBO-East only. HBO-2 or HBO-West is fine. But in the last month or so not even HBO-East has given me any trouble. So it may have been a bug during the couple months I noticed what might be a signal flag disturbance.
I'll know for sure when Bill Maher comes back on live Aug. 24th on HBO.
NL

[FriedSlug]

I have been archiving Entourage with the VIP622 and my Toshiba RD-XS32. Last night's episode was the first one that was copy protected this season. The only change I have made recently is adding a wireless bridge to the ethernet port for PPV. So either the addition of the ethernet port or the upgrade changed the ability to archive programs from HBO.

[TBoneit]

Or the 4.41/4.42 firmware that spooled august 15 to everyone is the reason.

I ran oput that evening and got two 500Gig WD USB2 externals and have been archiving to them.

[spire]

FriedSlug,

Thanks for the input.

For everyones info: I don't even have movie channels. I'm talking regular network programing and basic cable programming.

[spire]

Well, seems almost all shows can now not be recorded. What's the update for others out there trying to record with DVRs and then burn to DVDs? Any and all input would be appreciated.