To HDD or not to HDD?

[VideoLearnerGuy]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and I would like to ask: What are the reasons why some people prefer HDD DVDRs while others feel that regular DVDRs are sufficent? Also, how durable and long lasting are HDD units? The reason why I ask is because I know that repair for these types of recording units can be outrageous. And one more question: Is there a difference in the picture quality according to brands and models? At one forum, I read where someone said that regular Panasonic DVDRs have better picture quality than HDD DVDRs. Thanks in advance for your help.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

I just wanted to say that I just saw the "DVD Recorder models - Picture Quality and Features Analysis" sticky and it may answer my question about picture quality. However, if anyone has any opinions from first-hand experience, please feel free to share. Thanks.

[lacywest]

I use the Panasonic EH50 ... after I record some show I've recorded on to my Directv HR10 ... I then record it to the EH50 and I then shorten the title by getting myself nice and comfortable on my bed and I have a remote control in each hand and for the next 30 minutes I snip snip the commercials out and usually a 2 Hour Sci-Fi channel movie will be shortened to 90 minutes ... I like a HDD unit because I can trim the commercials out.

[guns1inger]

Likewise. I record off commercial (network) TV via an SD digital settop box. I record in a 90 minute mode, and two standard episodes run approx 2 hours. After trimming out commercials, two episodes will happily fit on a single layer disc with re-encoding.

Without the HDD I would be restricted to either a single episode per disc, or recording at a much lower quality.

[obs]

I'm an HDD fan.

More flexibility. No need to play disc shuffle; you just program the timer for all the shows you want to record and don't need to worry about it after that. 4h mode might be okay for regular movies, but they suck for sports/football.

DVD RWs weren't always reliable, although it probably had a lot to do with the LiteOn drive my disc-only recorder had. The early LiteOn drives weren't very good DVD writers, although I think this has changed since they purchased BenQ's optical division.

[lordsmurf]

It simply depends on your need. In one room, I have a HDD, in the other room, I don't. My needs change per room.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

Thank you everyone for your replies so far. But how about the picture quality. Do the regular DVDRs have better picture quality than HDD DVDRs? Also, how durable and reliable are HDD DVDRs? Plus, approximately, how long do they usually last?

[redwudz]

Thank you everyone for your replies so far. But how about the picture quality. Do the regular DVDRs have better picture quality than HDD DVDRs? Also, how durable and reliable are HDD DVDRs? Plus, approximately, how long do they usually last?

Good questions, but hard to answer.

The picture quality depends on the 'capture' settings, whether HD or DVD. I doubt there will be any difference if the 'capture' settings are the same.

The HD DVRs (Which are unfortunately becoming rare at present) have much more flexibility, as mentioned.

Durability depends on the company making the DVR and the HD brand. But most hard drives are rated for 50,000 hours. No different than a PC hard drive. And in some cases, you can replace the hard drive if it fails.

JMO, but it's a shame they are phasing out hard drive DVRs. Apparently not enough sales and TIVO or similar does basically the same thing. But I will keep my Pioneer 633 HD DVR until it dies.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

The picture quality depends on the 'capture' settings, whether HD or DVD. I doubt there will be any difference if the 'capture' settings are the same.

The HD DVRs (Which are unfortunately becoming rare at present) have much more flexibility, as mentioned.

Durability depends on the company making the DVR and the HD brand. But most hard drives are rated for 50,000 hours. No different than a PC hard drive. And in some cases, you can replace the hard drive if it fails.

Thanks for your reply, redwudz? But just for clarity, doesn't HD stand for "High Definition" while HDD stands for "Hard Disk Drive"?

[lordsmurf]

HDD = hard drive
HD = high def PVR (not DVD recorder)

I think he meant HDD.

Hard disk recorders are no different than non-hard disk recorders. Quality is based on various factors, such as chipset, bitrate, resolution-bitrate allocation, noise removal, etc.

[CrazyCanuck]

I'm a HDD fan, I like them because they are very practicle for someone who does a lot of recording, you don't get the pile of discs, everything is on the HDD. Also very convenient for someone who, as others on this thread and myself, like to edit and archive recordings. Most HDD models will also allow you to store JPEGs and audio files (MP3s,WMAs) on the HDD which makes the unit a great addition to an entertainment centre.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

I'm a HDD fan, I like them because they are very practicle for someone who does a lot of recording, you don't get the pile of discs, everything is on the HDD. Also very convenient for someone who, as others on this thread and myself, like to edit and archive recordings. Most HDD models will also allow you to store JPEGs and audio files (MP3s,WMAs) on the HDD which makes the unit a great addition to an entertainment centre.

Well, since I'm not one who does a lot of recording or editing or archiving, I'm starting to think that HDD might not be for me. BTW, could someone translate 50,000 hours into years?

[BobK]

I like HDD because when I'm out of town for a week or two I can record more than 2 hours (and more than 6 hours at poor quality) while I'm gone. If I want to record something that's 3 or 4 (or 6) hours, I don't have to stay home and change disks 2 or 3 times. If it's something I want to keep, I record to the HDD, copy (after splitting if necessary) to a n RW disk, then edit out commercials on the computer and burn to a new disk.

[RabidDog]

I have a remote control in each hand and for the next 30 minutes I snip snip the commercials out and usually a 2 Hour Sci-Fi channel movie will be shortened to 90 minutes

This made me laff, thus saving yourself how much time??

Regarding the geezers original point about the quality difference between Non-hard and HDD equipped recorders, logic and sense, economics would suggest there are none, if you are buying the equivalent models just one has a hard drive and one doesn't, Its a bit like asking does a 160gb model from pamasonic record in better quality than a 250gb model, of course not! the only difference is in the size of the hard drive.
But that is logic and maybe to justify a higher price the mfr will add some feature, or more likely disable a feature in the cheaper model

[VideoLearnerGuy]

Regarding the geezers original point about the quality difference between Non-hard and HDD equipped recorders, logic and sense, economics would suggest there are none, if you are buying the equivalent models just one has a hard drive and one doesn't...

Huh? Are you talking about me? I didn't realize that I was that old.

[redwudz]

I was on the low side with the 50,000 hours. Seagate rates some of their SATA drives at 700,000 hours MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) That's about 80 years. But they do have a 5 year warranty. The point I was trying to make is that hard drives can last a long time, on the average. Some may fail immediately, same as any device or may last a long time. They should last longer than the DVD burners in a HDD DVDR.

All that said, I wouldn't buy a DVDR without a hard drive. Just my opinion. I use my DVDR often for time shifting video and only burn what I really want to preserve. And then I often use a DVD RW when I burn as I find the editing features on my DVDR awkward and slow. And I have owned two DVDRs without hard drives.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

I was on the low side with the 50,000 hours. Seagate rates some of their SATA drives at 700,000 hours MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) That's about 80 years. But they do have a 5 year warranty. The point I was trying to make is that hard drives can last a long time, on the average. Some may fail immediately, same as any device or may last a long time. They should last longer than the DVD burners in a HDD DVDR.

All that said, I wouldn't buy a DVDR without a hard drive. Just my opinion. I use my DVDR often for time shifting video and only burn what I really want to preserve. And then I often use a DVD RW when I burn as I find the editing features on my DVDR awkward and slow. And I have owned two DVDRs without hard drives.

Wow! I have zero replies in my "DVDR Recommendation" thread, but the answers keep coming in this thread. You all must really believe in the HDD DVDRs. Well, actually, I think that I might go ahead and purchase an HDD DVDR, especially if Wal-Mart still has that new Magnavox at any of their stores where I live. And thanks, redwudz. Your information above about the longevity of the HDD helped. BTW, what is Seagate?

P.S. I also wanted to ask if RabidDog is always that, um, peculiar. However, I read another one of his posts and that, um, answered my question.

[redwudz]

Seagate is one of the major hard disk manufacturers. They bought out Maxtor recently, another large manufacturer. Other large manufacturers, Western Digital, Samsung, Hitachi and Fujitsu.

[tac7]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and I would like to ask: What are the reasons why some people prefer HDD DVDRs while others feel that regular DVDRs are sufficent?

A HDD DVDR has the potential to last many years, while a non-HDD DVDR's laser will more quickly burn out - sometimes in as little as a year - from heavier / daily time-shifting use.
With a reasonable large HDD unit (>80gig), you program your shows and forget about running out of space, while with RW discs, you constantly have to make sure you don't run into the 2h/SP or 4h/LP limit, particularly when adding extra time for shows that may start late, or run into overtime.
Since the laser only comes into play when you decide to burn a show to disc from the HDD, it will last multiple times longer compared to the constant, daily use of a non-HDD DVDR. At the same time, accessing a show on the HDD is much quicker and smoother, and you won't run into situations where a finicky disc becomes unplayable just after recording a rare show.
I also find the constant disc erase procedure on some DVDRs awkward and time-consuming, and would much rather go back to using a VCR than putting up with that nonsense on a daily basis.

[lordsmurf]

If both items are equal, maybe. You need a good hard drive (Seagate, Western Digital). Sadly, lots of DVD recorders have gone cheap, using Maxtor or others.

Same for lasers. Good drives can last a number of years. Sadly, they don't make a lot of drives that are really top-notch, and few are used in DVD recorders. My JVC recorder (2004) and Toshiba player(2002) equipment is still going good, but I've lost a lot of other machines in the years.

I use both types of drives. I recorded World Series Game 1-2 on my hard drive unit, while I recorded this morning's 30-minute Tom and Jerry on a disc-only recorder on a DVD-RW.

[VideoLearnerGuy]

Hey, folks, I just wanted to let you know that I purchased the Magnavox H2080MW8 HDD DVDR from Wal-Mart Friday evening. I still haven't set it up yet though.

[altajoe]

I'm a newbie and my requests are simple.

I want an HDD recorder that will allow me to record premium channel programming to the Hard Drive. I don't intend to "Archive" it. I just want to be able to watch HBO.

Does anyone know if the Philips 3575h or the new Magnavox H2080 (If I ever actually find it) will do this?

Thanks in advance.

[altajoe]

Bump

[wabjxo]

I'm a newbie and my requests are simple.

I want an HDD recorder that will allow me to record premium channel programming to the Hard Drive. I don't intend to "Archive" it. I just want to be able to watch HBO.

Does anyone know if the Philips 3575h or the new Magnavox H2080 (If I ever actually find it) will do this?

I've read of some who are recording HBO shows to their 3575 HDD, but I think it's partly controlled by the service supplier since others w/diff. service say they can't? I know from a national review that it can record a Copy-Once show to its HDD.

If interested, here's a lot of info on the Philips DVDR3575... some of it relates to any DVDR.

[orsetto]

tac7 wrote:

A HDD DVDR has the potential to last many years, while a non-HDD DVDR's laser will more quickly burn out - sometimes in as little as a year - from heavier / daily time-shifting use.

Yes and no. In theory an HDD-equipped recorder would be putting less demand on its burner and thus extend its life. In reality- don't count on it. HDD-DVD recorders come from a parallel universe where logic does not apply. Just ask the many members here whose HDD-DVD recorders had their burners inexplicably die in under a year and after burning less than 100 discs. I prefer Pioneer HDD-DVD units above all others for their particular balance of convenience-quality-reliability, yet even they had a terrifying run of machines whose burners crapped out one day after the 90 day warranty expired. Not fun. And don't even ASK people for their Toshiba HDD-DVD stories.

On the other hand, like LordSmurf, I have JVC DVD-only machines from 2004 in use every day that have never had a burner meltdown. And JVC is one of the less-loved makes discussed in this forum, with a not-great reliability reputation. Go figure. You take a chance either way, so buy what suits your needs and your budget. Personally I could not cope with a DVD recorder minus HDD as my main unit- there are just too many advantages to HDD once you've tried one, as mentioned by other posters.

[altajoe]

I'm a newbie and my requests are simple.

I want an HDD recorder that will allow me to record premium channel programming to the Hard Drive. I don't intend to "Archive" it. I just want to be able to watch HBO.

Does anyone know if the Philips 3575h or the new Magnavox H2080 (If I ever actually find it) will do this?

I've read of some who are recording HBO shows to their 3575 HDD, but I think it's partly controlled by the service supplier since others w/diff. service say they can't? I know from a national review that it can record a Copy-Once show to its HDD.

If interested, here's a lot of info on the Philips DVDR3575... some of it relates to any DVDR.

I was hoping that the HDD would be able to at least copy protected content to the hard drive. For, its useless if I can't record an HBO show for later viewing.

Thanks for responding.

[orsetto]

altajoe wrote:

I was hoping that the HDD would be able to at least copy protected content to the hard drive. For, its useless if I can't record an HBO show for later viewing.

There seems to be a lot of confusion in the minds of new people regarding this issue. Although there are alleged exceptions (certain Polaroid models, etc), in general *all* DVD recorders, with or without VCR or HDD, mfr'd since 2003 are programmed to respond to the optional copy inhibit signal used by some broadcasters and cable companies. Some are more sensitive than others but none are completely immune to it. Currently, activation of this signal seems random among cable/satellite companies and various channels- there are many different reports of it here on the forum. Eventually it will probably be activated across the board on all "premium" content, but right now it mostly seems applied to pay-per-view "movies on demand" or "events on demand".

I'm on Time Warner Digital Cable here in NYC, using an assortment of DVD recorders of different makes and vintages, and so far (knock wood) I have not had any CPRM issues with HBO, HBO on demand, Showtime, Showtime on demand, etc. But all the machines DO refuse to record pay-per-view, so I know they all react to the signal if it is present. A vcr will not react to the anti-record signal, so you can definitely *tape* such programs, but the tape will still have the signal embedded in it and if you attempt to transfer to DVD later on the DVD recorder will refuse to record it. Additional equipment is required to get around this, I have found a Sima Go-DVD CT200 will take care of it but "older" professional TBCs like iDen and For-A will not. Like everyone else, I too am waiting for someone else to give definitive word on whether the "newer" Datavideo or AVT semi-pro TBCs are effective (I had a Datavideo last year but sold it because I never used it: dumb move , because now they cost almost $500!)

[altajoe]

Well, I just picked up a Polaroid DRA01601A - HDD for $99 from Woot. Its supposed to be a piece of crap, but for $99 I took a chance. Hopefully it will record HBO to the Hard Drive. If it does, I'll be happy.

[altajoe]

Responding to my own post: Its here, set up and I'm happy to report that it works AND records HBO to the hard drive.

Now the bad news; as reported the instruction manual is possibly the worst written I have ever seen. I remember a comedian joking one day that when you see that some doctor graduated at the top of his/her class, that someone had to be the last. I think that if Polaroid only hired college grads, they target that last-in-class to write, proof and approve their manual.