Comcast and copy protection

[BobT]

I live in the Baltimore Md. area and use Comcast. I have been using their Motorola DCT700 cable box. Its very convenient and quite small. I have the box hooked up to feed a Pioneer DVR531 at its L1 input and the cable also going into the DVR531 RF input. Yesterday when I attempted to record a show on the SCIFI channel, from the DCT700 output, the DVR531 locked record out and reported copy protection. I immediiately switched the recorder to RF input on the SCIFI channel and was not locked out.

I record a lot of shows and use the DCT700 output since it gives a better signal to the recorder than the RF tuner. I counted 22 channels (all below 100) which Comcast is now sending a copy protection signal. The DCT700 is using, I believe, macrovision to prevent recording. So if you are having any problems recording TV through the DCT700 it appears that Comcast has decided to activate the boxes builtin copy protection.

[Marvingj]

Most likely Copy 1,2,3 Protection. Most sat. & cable Companies are doing it.

[SmokieStover]

I record a lot of shows and use the DCT700 output since it gives a better signal to the recorder than the RF tuner. I counted 22 channels (all below 100) which Comcast is now sending a copy protection signal. The DCT700 is using, I believe, macrovision to prevent recording. So if you are having any problems recording TV through the DCT700 it appears that Comcast has decided to activate the boxes builtin copy protection.

Are these analog channels?

[BobT]

Yes these are the analogue channels. They can be recorded via the tuner in the Pioneer but cannot be recorded on the video output of the Motorola DCT700. Comcast has decided to switch on the Macrovision built into the DCT700 for approximately 22 of the lower analogue channels.

Does anyone know of a common commerical DVD which is known to have CGMS-A implemented. I would like to get a disc for testing.

[SmokieStover]

Yes these are the analogue channels. They can be recorded via the tuner in the Pioneer but cannot be recorded on the video output of the Motorola DCT700. Comcast has decided to switch on the Macrovision built into the DCT700 for approximately 22 of the lower analogue channels.

Does anyone know of a common commerical DVD which is known to have CGMS-A implemented. I would like to get a disc for testing.

I doubt if the box is outputting a MV corrupted analog signal.....that would require extra hardware and a MV license for each box. However, it's easy to test for using a VCR in record mode. If you are using the RCA jacks out of the STB, run them straight to the VCR. If your using S-Video out from the STB, run them thru an RF modulator. If you are using component out from the STB (I haven't seen a Non-HD STB with component out), try S-Video straight to the pioneer.

If the STB is introducing the CGMS-A flag, the flag should pass thru a RF modulator just like closed captions. Give this a try..... STB output to RF modulator to RF In on the pioneer.

It's also possible that the pioneer tuner doesn't recognize CGMS-A.

Never heard of a test disk for CGMS-A.

[SmokieStover]

Am I the only one puzzled and ticked off about any kind of copy protection being applied to any material on a basic analog cable channel? Just reading about it has made me stay clear of all stand along PVR's and DVD recorders. I still record using a VCR and TV tuner cards, none of which have been affected by this nonsense.

Are we as consumers expected to pay out the nose for new technology that is not as useful as what we have used for almost 30 years?

Who amongst us has not used a VCR to record a good movie, cutting out the commercials as we watched them, and then years later bought that same movie when it was available in better quality (DVD) at a reasonable price? I will name just a few of dozens I can think of: Gone With The Wind, Patton, True Grit, Ben Hur, The Sound of Music, The Blues Brothers, All About Eve, Twelve O'Clock High.

Who amongst us has not used a PC tuner card to record movies or old TV shows that we would never buy and are difficult to rent, but that we would watch more than once if we cut-out the commercials and put them on DVD? Some that I can think of are old Twilight Zone, Star Trek and Columbo episodes.

Now how the hell does this hurt anyone, including the dam copywrite owner?

And who amongst us do not have the tools to copy any dam DVD we can get our hands on? IS THIS WHAT THE GREADY BASTARDS WANT?

[Epicurus8a]

Am I the only one puzzled and ticked off about any kind of copy protection being applied to any material on a basic analog cable channel? Just reading about it has made me stay clear of all stand along PVR's and DVD recorders. I still record using a VCR and TV tuner cards, none of which have been affected by this nonsense.

Are we as consumers expected to pay out the nose for new technology that is not as useful as what we have used for almost 30 years?

Who amongst us has not used a VCR to record a good movie, cutting out the commercials as we watched them, and then years later bought that same movie when it was available in better quality (DVD) at a reasonable price? I will name just a few of dozens I can think of: Gone With The Wind, Patton, True Grit, Ben Hur, The Sound of Music, The Blues Brothers, All About Eve, Twelve O'Clock High.

Who amongst us has not used a PC tuner card to record movies or old TV shows that we would never buy and are difficult to rent, but that we would watch more than once if we cut-out the commercials and put them on DVD? Some that I can think of are old Twilight Zone, Star Trek and Columbo episodes.

Now how the hell does this hurt anyone, including the dam copywrite owner?

And who amongst us do not have the tools to copy any dam DVD we can get our hands on? IS THIS WHAT THE GREADY BASTARDS WANT?

Welcome to the 21st century. People have become paranoid about everything. Furthermore, paranoia does nothing but breed more paranoia. It's gotten so bad you can't even tell a joke without some dimwit f*cktard , screaming "I'm offended!." My usual response is this: "STUFF IT UP YOUR A$$ YOU FREAKIN' PIECE OF CRAP!!!!!!!!"

[somebodeez]

Am I the only one puzzled and ticked off about any kind of copy protection being applied to any material on a basic analog cable channel? Just reading about it has made me stay clear of all stand along PVR's and DVD recorders.

I'm ticked off too (I'm not puzzled though. I know why they do it - greed. The puzzling thing to me is how they can get away with it.) and like you, because of what I have read over time just stick to using my PC to cap with.
I can see no reason to shell out $ for a recording device that's not as functional. However there are others who aren't as comfortable using a PC for that or perhaps don't even know that's possible.

[BobT]

Smokiestover - Yeah it is definitely the DCT700 which Comcast has programmed to produce the MV. The DCT700 manual says it has MV and there is a sticker on the unit which says "Macrovision" and a patent number. The Pioneer recorder will respond to CGMS according to their manual but I have never seen it.

And there is a disk available to check a device response to MV and CGMS, go to the Macrovision website. I t costs $30.00.

I have never seen MV or CGMS in any OTA or Comcast cable channels (I do not get the premium services just basic digital). Comcast does active MV on the DCT700 also for the "ON Demand" movies, even the free ones.

By the way everytime you purchase a DVD Recorder. player, or commerical DVD you are subsidizing the Macrovision Corp since all of these manufacturers pay Macrovision a fee to put it on the device or DVD. Thats why the Macrovision corp doesn't like the use of CGMS.

[SmokieStover]

BobT,

If I understand you correctly, you are able to record the analog channels with the Pioneer using it's tuner, but get locked out recording some of the same channels that are simultaneously sent digitally and which are decoded by the DCT700.

I watch almost no live TV and value time shifting and place shifting too much to put up with that horse pucky. Therefore, Excluding VOD or PPV, any TV service that could not be freely recorded with a low tech, low resolution VCR would be a downgrade in service for me. A downgrade to the point that I would just pull the plug.

It's possible Comcast has made an error. Did you give them a call?