Removable SATA guide required

[kurbads]

When SATA was introduced I heard their connectors are designed for on the fly connecting/disconnecting. But there is no interface to stop SATA device for removal under Windows XP. Also different manufacturers use different names for on thy fly removable systems like hotswaping, hot plugging, mobile rack etc.

There are three kinds of components involved in "on the fly" removable SATA:
1) removable harddrives;
2) SATA controllers with hotswap function;
3) removable racks, cases or enclosures.

Each of them is sold without information about others. E.g. IBM sells swap drives without a word on what SATA controllers they can be connected and hotswapped:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/IBM-Simple-Swap-removable-SATA-300-buffer/dp/B000F3AKVQ


Or HP sells SATA hard drive enclosures with no word again about suitable hardrives or controllers -
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12676_na/12676_na.HTML

There is even software called HotSwap! http://mysite.verizon.net/kaakoon/hotswap/index_enu.htm
But it has limited number of supported controllers. It certainly does not work with Intel or Via integrated SATA controllers I have.

Could anybody clear up the picture?

[celtic_druid]

Hot Swapping is as understand it part of the specs so it should be supported by all hardware. Easiest is probably just to use eSATA though.

nForce boards from recollection get the Safely Remove Hardware by default for SATA drives. I guess if all else fails, just use device manager.

[kurbads]

There certainly are drives which do not support hotswapping.
The same applays to controllers.
eSATA? Does it necessary mean hot swapping?
I saw SATA to eSATA adapter for under $10. Will it be a cure?
Look a description:

Description
The adapter converts a SATA connector into a eSATA connection and vice versa.
Specification
• USB 2.0 specification
• eSATA female - SATA female
• Serial ATA v2.0 specification
• Data transfer rate up to 3 Gbps
• Hot Swap

I feel like I have found a solution!


What if Device Manager ask for reboot?
Ah! No, eSata means external SATA and there are no enclosures wich convert simple SATA disks into eSATA! I am not going to pay 100$ extra for an external case with embedded hard drive!

[TBoneit]

There are Sata Drive to external Esata enclosures. This I know since I have one home that came with a sata to esata cable and mount for teh back of the case, and we sell them so they are available.
I'm not trying to sell you one since we do not do mail order BTW.

http://www.techsunny.com/parts-cat_id-293.html has some. Found using http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=creative+i%2Fo+external+sata+drive+case

[ofbarea]

Via has a driver for Via chipsets based mobos that allow hot removal of SATA devices.

I have used this driver in my machine and it work just fine.

[redwudz]

eSATA and SATA are the same thing, eSATA is just a type of cable end more suitable to external enclosures, nothing to do with the drives. I use both types of cables on my external SATA drives.

Any SATA drive is hot plugable, that's part of the specification, AFAIK. I have unplugged both internal and external SATA drives with no problems. With any drive, don't unplug them while they are being written to or from. Most OS's like XP have a task bar icon to let you do safe removal, the same as a USB thumb drive. Using that would be safer unless you are sure the drive is not in use when you unplug it.

Most newer SATA drives are SATA II or 3GB/s but that will only happen when you have a SATA II controller. In practice, they are a little faster than a PATA IDE drive, but come no where near 3GB/s. SATA II drives are backward compatible with SATA I controllers.

[kurbads]

Via has a driver for Via chipsets based mobos that allow hot removal of SATA devices.

I have used this driver in my machine and it work just fine.

Could you be more specific about this, I searched the VIA site and Internet, but did not find anything alike.

I downloaded and installed http://www.viaarena.com/Driver/vraid_driver_v550b.zip, no luck.



Hot swap tool still shows hotswap options unavailable unavailable.




If I convert a disk into dynamic, will it help?
Since the conversion is irreversable I want to know is there any chance it will help?

[Bjs]

kurbads ... I think you have an issue with device drivers ... way too many similar items appearing .

Unistall them , and reboot should resolve the mess .

If they all actually existed , the pc wouldnt have enough power to run at all .

[dh]

If you plug your SATA HDD to your computer thro SATA to eSATA adaptor, your computer can only detect your HDD after fresh reboot.
If you plug your SATA HDD to your computer thro eSATA port built right into your motherboard or plug-in board (driver for which should first be installed), your computer can detect your HDD without fresh reboot.

[kurbads]

If they all actually existed , the pc wouldnt have enough power to run at all .

What do you mean would not have! Have a look! Especially draw your attention to CPU consumption - less then 20%!

I burn at 6 sessions at once otherwise Nero will close disks not at once but one by one in DVD+ case thus adding extra 10 minutes to each dozen of disks being burned.
This is why I always use DVD- disks. In this case disk provider run out of stock.
I keep DVD folders I occasionally burn on hard disks. Their size now exceeds 1.1Tb. Since I have 12 burners attached to built-in ATA controllers and 2 other additional ATA controllers, I have only two SATA holes to plug HDDs. This way I have one 500Gb, other 400Gb SATA and one 200 Gb IDE in External USB case. But this case alone costs 50$. And IDE disk inside it is not comfortably removable. Also USB degrades performance. So I thought solution would be removable SATA.

Maybe disks can not be removed because one is marked Boot in Disk Mangaement and other is marked System. Windows though reside only on Boot drive. Also I disabled virtual memory - left only 2Mb on boot volume.

I will try to remove "System" setting through diskpart.

[Heywould3]

OT: and rhetorical

Why would anyone want to burn 6 copies of the same movie. other than you know` bmg sony etc...

no answer wanted

[kurbads]

I duplicate disks for local documentary studio, that’s all.
The disk in picture was made 100 copies for presentation on exhibition.
Any comments about Nero being the best, less CPU burner?

[Heywould3]

I use nero i wouldnt say its the best but in my opinion it has all teh features i need and it has never failed on me. it looks like it works great for you so i would keep doing what your doing.

[TBoneit]

I believe BJs meant normal computer power supply wouldn't handle that many drives, Not CPU power.

I have to ask though wouldn't it be easier to buy a disc duplicator tower?

[kurbads]

I have to ask though wouldn't it be easier to buy a disc duplicator tower?

I have two power supply units. One 350W other 400W. But they are too much. I measured burners consume 8W/12W/16W for min/normal/max respectively. 99% of time burners use normal. Max only on power calibration.

I do not buy tower, because you can't use duplicating tower as regular computer. Besides they cost times more then PC with controllers and burners. Also tower IDE controllers are not universal. If the burning units break or wear out one has to buy exact model which may be hard to find especially if they are out of date.
One moment I thought to by a separate controller which cost like 170$ for a 12 unit one plus 30$ for USB interface. But even the controller costs more than descent mobo + RAM + CPU + 2xIDE controllers + LAN + keyboard&mouse. PC is more flexible then tower. Also it does not need a dedicated monitor. It can be controlled via Remote Desktop.

Yesterday somebody told me the DiscJuggler is best program for multiple copy burning. Strange, but I never read a review about it. The guide I saw only compares Nero and Alcohol. The guy also recommended me DiscJuggler to solve the Nero DVD+ disc finalizing problem.

P.S. Converting SATA disk into dynamic did not make it removable.

[TBoneit]

I believe removable is a function of driver/chipset. A Intel chipset Mobo did not show remvable, VIA chipset likewise. A NForce chipset Mobo I use at home shows the C: Sata as removable.

[kurbads]

I found a solution. I use a ViPower SATA MobileRACK. Now the hard drive appears as removable.



And a long awaited message.


Interesting fact that ECS 865G-M8 mobo with Intel SATA controller 82801EB allows hotswapping even if no hardware rack is installed.

Also I do not have any idea how the mobile rack works. The thing is its SATA cable does not go through any chip. It is connected directly and manufacturer boasts it is the worlds first and only "direct link" technology. The only modification is in power supply. It goes through simple circuit board with no chips. Maybe the secret is hidden in the way windows manages the power through data cable and depending on the way the disk reacts to windows power control requests it shows the disk as disableable or hotswapable, or even removable. Maybe there is some jumper.



But the strangest thing comes after. Now after installing mobile rack all non system disks on my Intel mobo became swapable regeardless of their connection - direct or through rack.



The mobo has Intel 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7 Family) Serial ATA storage controller.

[kurbads]

Now when I have found a way to remove and insert SATA I have a new problem. Every time I insert disk I have to share it again to make it visible on a network. Also if a shared disk is accesed from network Windows will not allow to remove it even if unshared. It tells some programs are still using the drive.

1) Is there a way to permanently share a disk, drive letter, bay or location
2) May I ignore "still in use" messages