Is HIgh Definition Worth all the fuzz ??

[stavrosh]

I am using HD material (trailers) from the apple site to watch on a 42 Samsung LCD screen ( connected to a G5 via a DVI-HDMI cable). While there is a almost "noticeable" difference between a standard PAL DVD and a 720p encoded material, I DON'T see significant visual differences between 720p and 1080p material. I have used a HTPC ( .....I know the almost banned word !!) to verify these conclusions.

Maybe my equipment cannot reveal the hypothetical stellar differences in these HD formats, but I am convinced that there is TOO MUCH fuzz about HD and blu-ray technologies and the majors would like to take again our money (buying for the 4rth or 5th time the same title .....). I am kind of skeptical on how the huge investment which is required ( new player + new disks) will be worth our visual satisfaction !!

I am curious if other users have similar experiences.

[Baldrick]

42" LCD with what resolution? 1080p?

But 42" is anyway a bit too small for notice any big difference between 720p and 1080p, get a 100" 1080p tv or projector and compare instead...

[stavrosh]

yes the samsung delivers 1080p (true HD) . Now the suggestion of the projector (simulation of 100 inches) enters into the realm of high-level investment. Obviously someone would like to get a 1080p projector that delivers its goods and in Italy this means at least 5000 Euros ( ie starting from a BENQ W1000).

The key issue here is how much better-off we are with the blu-ray / HD technology and if this difference can be qualified by the high costs of HD players and disks.

[edDV]

The key issue here is how much better-off we are with the blu-ray / HD technology and if this difference can be qualified by the high costs of HD players and disks.

That is a personal decision. Here is my take.

My perception of difference follows a log scale. The difference between analog NTSC/PAL and a well mastered 720x480/576 DVD is large on a quality display. SD digital broadcasting has the potential to reach DVD quality. A good DVD can handle upscale to 1280x720 fairly well. On a typical 1366x768 mid resolution display, downscaled HD/BD looks better but at what cost? That is the decision. Over time prices will fall. I can wait.

IMO the differences between 1366x768p and 1920x1080p displays are very small up to 50". I think the differences in image processing chips are more important than display resolution.

Above 50 inches the advantage of 1080p and HD/BD is obvious to me.

In a large projection theater 4kx2k looks better than 1920x1080. The difference between 4kx2k and 4kx4k is less obvious to me.

[stavrosh]

You were saying that over 50 " the 1080p vs DVD quality differences are clear , which is still perplexing to me .. I would assume that you need a much larger area (> 65 ") to evaluate possible benefits of 1080p, which bring us closer to the projector concept. To add to this issue the fact that there are many DVD qualities ( the older the film the worst the quality factor becomes) and many SD qualities ( although for the latter I have minimal experience due to the fact that satelite transmissions in Italy are in standard resolution) .
I agree with you that in time prices will be lower but again we are talking about new players and NEW disks ....

I didn't quite follow your final comments on 4k x 2k resolution are we talking about film resolution or something else ?

And a final question .. how long you would wait before getting a blu-ray / HD or a combo set-up ?

What bothers me is that these issues have been challenged in the past from the passage to VHS / Beta, to VCD , to LaserDisc, to DVD ( and superbit DVD etc) ... The majors always find a way to make us buy the better / updated visual product.

[dun4cheap]

There is a noticeable difference playing 480, 720 and 1080 from my computer to my 47" Vizio. I have my computer hooked up through the VGA at 1920x1080 and there is definately a noticeable difference. The footage I have tested it with was from my Canon HV10 and snapshots from my Canon XTI.

[edDV]

You were saying that over 50 " the 1080p vs DVD quality differences are clear , which is still perplexing to me .. I would assume that you need a much larger area (> 65 ") to evaluate possible benefits of 1080p, which bring us closer to the projector concept. To add to this issue the fact that there are many DVD qualities ( the older the film the worst the quality factor becomes) and many SD qualities ( although for the latter I have minimal experience due to the fact that satelite transmissions in Italy are in standard resolution).

In theory screen size shouldn't make a difference if you view at the same screen angle. In other words a 1366x768p 42" at 6.6 feet should look identical to a 60" at 9.4feet. These are THX recommended 26 degree viewing angles.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Likewise a 1920x1080p display should look identical at those sizes and distances. So the comparison should be 1366x768 vs 1920x1080 at the same screen size and same viewing distance. I agree that resolution differences are small but are there if you stand close to the screen.

The differences between 720x480/576 DVD and 1920x1080 HD/BD DVD are more noticed on either a 1366x768 set or a 1920x1080 set. Does that mean I'd buy HD/BD now? No. I'll wait.

I agree with you that in time prices will be lower but again we are talking about new players and NEW disks ....

I see no need to upgrade old DVD titles. I'd just favor HD for some new titles.

I didn't quite follow your final comments on 4k x 2k resolution are we talking about film resolution or something else ?

These are electronic projection resolutions for small to large cinema theaters. In such theaters you tend to view at greater angles than at home thus more resolution is needed. Most new HD/BD DVD titles are mastered at 4kx2k or 4kx4k then downsized to 1920x1080.

And a final question .. how long you would wait before getting a blu-ray / HD or a combo set-up ?

For me, when the price gets close to an Oppo 970 ~$180.

What bothers me is that these issues have been challenged in the past from the passage to VHS / Beta, to VCD , to LaserDisc, to DVD ( and superbit DVD etc) ... The majors always find a way to make us buy the better / updated visual product.

I think quality jumps from VHS to Laserdisc to DVD were larger than 576p DVD to 1080p DVD.

[mhar4]

I recently saw Batman Begins running off a Blu-Ray disk on a quite a large tv (maybe 42") and it was the first time I saw HD and thought "Wow". It really looked amazing. So smooth and sharp, like a glossy photograph. So it might be that the material plays a big part in perception of these images.

[Kryton]

Are you absolutely sure the TV is outputting the full resolution? I thought most TVs wouldn't give you the full resolution over HDMI unless it came from a certified device source with all the copy protection in place.

[edDV]

Are you absolutely sure the TV is outputting the full resolution? I thought most TVs wouldn't give you the full resolution over HDMI unless it came from a certified device source with all the copy protection in place.

Further to that, since he is using a G5 to TV over DVI-D to HDMI the issue may be 1080i being deinterlaced poorly in the MAC. Try a try true 1080p progressive sample.

The Quicktime H.264 samples aren't the best source. For on thing they are only 480p or 720p. Also H.264 is highly compressed and needs a better than normal hardware
decoder.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/

Uncompressed 1080p needs a RAID for playback. Anybody know a source for 1080p MPeg2 samples?

For Windows users, the 1080p WMV-HD samples are a good test. WMV-HD assumes a street normal display card but you need a fast CPU processor for 1080p.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx