something better than a lavalier mic?

[sdsumike619]

I've just about had it with using a lavalier mic, the noise from the wire rubbing, the plosives, they're just a pain in the butt. I'm shooting music instruction videos and the subject is simply sitting in a chair talking and I'm about 5 feet away with the camera (Panasonic DVC-80)

Is there something else I can buy that isn't a lavalier that will pick up his voice well? (I do not want to use the onboard camera microphone)

Thanks!

[BJ_M]

use a boom mic overhead

[sdsumike619]

I can do that, but what mic should I buy for that?

[Soopafresh]

Shure SM57 is a very good one, low cost as well (<$100). You do get into the world of balanced/unbalanced connectors once you get into pro mics, so you might need an XLR to 1/4" cable convertor.


http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_the_sm57.htm


http://dvshop.ca/cables/xlr.html

[sdsumike619]

So mounting this mic on a boom would give a pretty clear recording of voice? Would the mic need to be in the picture frame (very close to his mouth) or could it be mounted up above and out of the frame?

[zoobie]

above and out of frame is the usual method

[sdsumike619]

On another video forum, Douglas Spotted Eagle replied this:

"In the words of a New Yorker....fuggedaboutit (no, I'm not from NY, but I've always wanted to type that phrase)
An SM57 won't give you much of anything at distance. Neither will an SM58.
I'll wager that a 10.00 stick on computer mic mounted to the subject's chest will sound better than an SM57 at 30"."

I know he's pretty much the authority on this stuff, so now I'm not so sure about the SM57 recommendation?

[Soopafresh]

Location, location, location Depends on the mic placement and how you're going to frame the scene. If they're guitar instructional videos like the kind I've watched, there isn't much head movement. The SM57s are very directional, you have to point them at the forehead from above.

No dissing DSE, however. He's a smart guy and I respect his opinion. The shotgun style mics he's probably going to recommend are going to be somewhat more expensive. If you live in the big city, you should demo some mics at the local Sam Ash or Geeetar Center. That'll be the way you can really tell.

[sdsumike619]

Someone on the other forum suggested the Rode VideoMic and I just got off the phone with Rode and it looks pretty much to be exactly what I need, mounts right on the camera and he said at such a short distance from the subject, it will perform just the way I want it to.

[zoobie]

Sure...Rode is actually what most use. I would have mentioned it but I misread your first post.

[Cornucopia]

Boom miking is usually done with "Shotgun" (extremely directional) line-array pattern mics.

NOT Cardioid (like SM57, SM58), nor Bidirectional or Omni. (note: most lav mikes are omni, though some are cardioid).

Real good ones are Sennheiser MHK series and Schoeps and Sanken and Neumann.
For more economical, there's AudioTeknica and Azden.

If you're particular about your sound, you WON'T want to use something that's camera-mounted. RARELY (I won't say EVER, there are a few occasions)! Above pointing down, or below pointing up, and JUST outside of the frame of the shot AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE (watch for shadow as well).
You could augment that shotgun with a parabolic reflector if you're going for a wider shot.

But consider this analogy: Using a shotgun mike is like using a telephoto (zoomed-in) lens. You don't want to start at a distance, because stuff that's in the foreground (which you may not have noticed before) is also going to get magnified. Camera machine Whirr and Cam Operator movements are "in the foreground" on a camera-mounted mike, even if they're "off-axis".

That's why you see Pro Sound guys using booms.

BTW, some lavs DON'T give you cable noise and plosives, but they still have the faults of not giving you a FULL sound like a shotgun or other mike can and of either being wired (and so tied down) or wireless (with its RF IM distortion added). If they ever got DIGITAL wireless mikes ironed out and made cheaply, that'd be great, but we're not there yet...

Scott

[sdsumike619]

I read some other posts about the Rode VideoMic picking up camera noise, but then it was concluded that it was really only noticeable on cheap cameras that had no manual controls on them. Rode confirmed that with me on the phone, plus they have some kind of mounting device that doesn't allow the camera noises to be picked up by the mic, shock or something I don't know.

[Cornucopia]

Good shock-mounting can greatly reduce the transmission of sound THROUGH the mounting material, acoustic baffling can muffle some nearby sounds, and stronger OFF-AXIS-REJECTION can make things that aren't directly in the line-of-sight much quieter, but unfortunately the Rode guys are touting their mike a little beyond what is physically possible (and demonstrable). It's noticeable if you have to turn up the volume (for any reason).

BTW, I would never use, or ever suggest that anyone use a camera that doesn't have some way to manually override an Automatic gain control. I wasn't really referring to that when I was talking earlier. Let's compare apples to apples and always use a manual setting...

Besides, AGC has it's own "pumping" sound added anyway.

What I'd recommend (especially if you're a single videographer with no extra sound guy) is get an AudioTechnica shotgun, mounted with shock-absorbing springloaded cradle attached to the boom end of a heavy duty stable mike stand (kind of like a C-Stand). If the musician stays relatively in one place, you won't have to mess with the mike once he and the mike are in place. Wire the mike to a portable/field mixer that has VERY LOW NOISE, apply an in-line peak limiter (for those occasional transients) and run LINE LEVEL out from the mixer to your camera, making sure the cam is set to standard line level and in manual mode (hopefully there'll be a setup tone available on the mixer for just such eventuality).

Yeah, it'll set you back somewhat, but your sound will be much stronger, fuller, more controllable and with less other stuff getting in the way.

Scott

[sdsumike619]

I heard some samples mp3 files of the Rode VideoMic on a review site and it sounded a lot better than what I have now, this isn't really mission critical, as long as they can hear the voice without the stupid rubbing sounds and plosives, then I'm a happy camper..

[olyteddy]

For a clean, natural sound PZM mics can't be beat. Radio Shack used to have one for around $30, but Crown stopped licensing the technology to them.

[sdsumike619]

is PZM a brand name? Do they have a website?

[BJ_M]

crown pzm mics http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/pzm.htm

[edDV]

Normal solution is a shotgun from a pole or boom stand but that has been said.

[zoobie]

For a clean, natural sound PZM mics can't be beat. Radio Shack used to have one for around $30, but Crown stopped licensing the technology to them.

If you're leaning towards PZM, try calling up all the Radio Shacks in your area...Maybe there's an outside chance one store may still have it in their stock.

Sometimes, I use a little Memorex micro tape recorder which can be popped in the top pocket or connected to a lavalier.

My first sales job was Radio Shack back when it was a toy store...

[Cornucopia]

PZM patents should have expired by now (yep, just doublechecked--it was 1982, so it's run it's 20year course), so Radio Shack ought to be able to put one out one their own regardless of Crown's opinion.

Scott

[Cornucopia]

Nonetheless, placement is STILL of prime importance, regardless of the pickup pattern.

Scott