Who has purchased the Pioneer 531?

[ann coates]

Is it much of an improvement over the 520? How's the PQ? And what's this XP+ all about? Most of the posts on here about it seem to focus on the TV Guide of which I'm not interested in. Was this the only major change?

[TBoneit]

Well My Eyes are not HiFi but I'm going down and look at it tonight after work (Saturday) and I'll let you know next week what I thought of it. It is a darn shame these places are not set up to let you plunk in a disk and do a test record to see how they compare.

Cheers

[TBoneit]

FWIW I did buy one. Look at message in this thread:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1340966#1340966

Quality of recording from tape looks Ok to me. Approx the same as the Tape I'm coming from.

OK, The XP+ as I understand it will lengthen the time to produce a disc but will give better quality. In short XP+ uses a high bit rate 15Mbps to record to drive then uses an optimized for size bitrate to record to the DVD. 3 Line Inputs + Tuner.
Cheers

[ann coates]

Thanks for your response, TBoneit. I'm off to check your message in the thread you linked.

[bnbhoha]

the 533 just came out. If you buy online you do not have to pay taxes. You can find it online for $355 delivered vs. walmar price of $337 + taxes = $369 roughly. So it's actually cheaper if you buy online.

[gshelley61]

I have a 531 on the way, too. Probably will be here in a few days (or sooner). I also have a Sony RDR-HX900 on hand to compare... they both have the 15Mbps hard drive recording feature that allows an optimized second encoding pass to DVD. The Pioneer can burn dual layer (8.5GB) discs, as well.

[FulciLives]

I have a 531 on the way, too. Probably will be here in a few days (or sooner). I also have a Sony RDR-HX900 on hand to compare... they both have the 15Mbps hard drive recording feature that allows an optimized second encoding pass to DVD. The Pioneer can burn dual layer (8.5GB) discs, as well.

Looking forward to your in-depth review of it which I hope will include 15Mbps recordings to HDD then re-recorded to a DVD disc at a lower bitrate.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[bbanderic]

I have the Pioneer 633 and it has the XP+ feature as well, the problem is you can only fit 40 minutes on a single layer disc. It would be great if your using the DVD-R DL discs (75-80 min.) if you can find them.

[TBoneit]

Doesn't sound as if you are using that feature right. As I understand it you capture to the HDD in XP+ mode and then the unit re-encodes that capture in realtime to fit the DVD blank size using the appropriate bitrate.

I know I saw more detail in the manual but all I can find right now is on Page 95 , Manual Recording and Optimized recording. Sounds to me like you have optimized recording Off?

Good Luck

[donpedro]

XP+ can not be recorded onto DVD

[gshelley61]

XP+ can not be recorded onto DVD

To clarify... XP+ titles on the HDD can be copied to DVD, just not at high speed or at the XP+ bitrate. They have to be re-encoded down to XP or another lower average bitrate setting mode so the DVD will be compliant, therefore high speed dubbing of XP+ titles from HDD to DVD is not possible. This is true of the Sony RDR-HX900, as well. That's probably what you meant, right?

Anyway, got the Pioneer DVR-531H yesterday and have it hooked up to my home theater system. It's just as thin as the earlier Pioneer units, but not as deep. It's a heavy little bugger! Seems very well made to me. No cooling fan, but after being on for hours it is not getting hot - not even very warm. I like that because my cabinet is crowded with gear so the less heat that is generated the better. The thin size allows me to keep my Bravo D1 upscaling player (DVI out) in the rack for DVD playback. Like the Sony, Pioneer has now added menu navigation buttons to the front of the unit so most functions can be accessed without the remote.

In addition to the video input (and output) picture controls that were in the 10 and 20 series Pioneer DVD recorders, the 531/533/633 have a Gamma adjustment added. So, there are Y and C video noise reduction adjustments, 3D Y/C separation filter adjustment, Detail (edge sharpness) adjustment, chroma and hue adjustments, 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE black level compensation, black and white level adjustments, AGC (automatic white level), and now a gamma adjustment. Gamma differs from black and white level controls in that gamma curves are sort of similar in function to audio EQ curves. Pioneer definitely still leads the way in how much you can tweak the analog video input image prior to recording, for sure.

The Sony RDR-HX900 is much larger and does heat up... even when it is off the fan runs and the unit stays pretty warm. Well built, though. It has component video input (480i) which is cool, but the video input picture adjustments only work on s-video and composite inputs.

Both units have the TV Guide listing feature. Can easily be bypassed if you don't want to use it.

[Seeker47]

gshelley61,

As a recent purchaser of the 520H (which I like quite a lot, btw) , I found your comments on this new model quite interesting, And I'm curious about a few things.

First of all, a salesperson at Good Guys told me that the successor model (533) would not go on sale in the U.S. for another 5 - 6 months. That was about a month ago, and clearly inaccurate. I'm still wondering why Pioneer deemed the 700 and 900 series models (which only seem to be available in PAL / 220 current versions) as either unsuitable or too high-end for the U.S. market. But, from your description, it sounds like some of their features are migrating down to the 53x models ? I'm thinking particularly of the larger HDD and DL support, if that is in fact the case.

I'm also wondering what -- if any -- features of earlier models may be going away ? Have heard rumors, for example, that some powerful interests have been exerting pressure on the mainstream manufacturers to do away with Commercial Skip.

"No cooling fan, but after being on for hours it is not getting hot - not even very warm"

Now that's very interesting. These and other forums contain a number of posts complaining about fan noise in the 520 and some other models. Haven't had a problem with that myself.

"So, there are Y and C video noise reduction adjustments, 3D Y/C separation filter adjustment, Detail (edge sharpness) adjustment, chroma and hue adjustments, 0 IRE and 7.5 IRE black level compensation, black and white level adjustments, AGC (automatic white level), and now a gamma adjustment."

Any decline in the noted Pioneer ease of use, on account of this ? Quite honestly, I've only skimmed sections of the 520H manual, and feel there are plenty of features left to learn.

Are there any enhancements to editing or chapter options, or things like more customizable thumbnails ?

Looking forward to reading some full reviews.


Seeker47

[doxtorRay]

I've got the 510, 420 and now the 531. Here are some observations.

The good:
*The 531 has about as good a picture quality at MN13 (210 minutes at 720x480) as the previous models did at MN19 (140 minutes at 720x480). In short, it is useable.
*The menus can now hold 20 characters per line instead of 16.
*When editing programs or copy lists, the interface now shows chapter marks and highlights the section in a timeline to indicate what section you are editing. Slick and handy.
*The navigator now indicates file size for each title, which is handy if you plan to later assemble several titles for a copy list
*DL is a feature on the newer models
*still have commercial skip and back (same as 520)

The bad:
*The EPG is annoying if you do not have cable. Bypassing it means you cannot record off of RF, and using it requires 24 hour downloads and lots of setup for channels you don't want.
*The Navigator is completely redesigned, and now options (especially editing options) are hidden.
*The editing interfaces in the Navigator and Copy List (which used to be similar) are now inconsistent. Neither shows you editing options (as was on the left-side menu of the old interface). What's more annoying, to edit in the Navigator, one needs to select a title and press the right arrow key. In the Copy List, one selects the title and presses "enter." In the Navigator, "enter" now always plays the selected title (instead of performing a selected function). This inconsistency is confusing even if you aren't used to the old interface.

The Ugly:
*the fonts are smaller (to cram more letters in each title)
*chapter marks and Navi (thumbnail) marks can no longer be set while viewing a program, but must be set in the editing interface of the Navigator or Copy List.
*the title (name) editing screen opens with a default of lower case, even though almost every title will begin with UPPER CASE
*if you want to use your arrow keys to select letters for a title, the layout is still hard to use
*the new navigator is ugly, and seems to waste quite a bit of screen real estate (just my opinion, YMMV)

There is a fan, and mine is about as noisy as my 510 and 420. Many people complain about the fan when the EPG is being loaded (apparently, the hard drive and fan both operate at full tilt while the EPG is being loaded).

I would say that the interface's ease of use is lower in the new models, but the recording features (greater time at high res. and DL recording) compensate. Plus, some of the interface changes are nice (less chance of accidently erasing the wrong chapter because of the timeline highlight feature, for example).

[donpedro]

XP+ can not be recorded onto DVD

To clarify... XP+ titles on the HDD can be copied to DVD, just not at high speed or at the XP+ bitrate. They have to be re-encoded down to XP or another lower average bitrate setting mode so the DVD will be compliant,

Correct. I was lazy to use whole sentence

[donpedro]

Now about my new 630H... I did not have older Pioneer models, but so far I find operation very easy (I have it only couple of days though).

[donpedro]

The bad:
*The EPG is annoying if you do not have cable. Bypassing it means you cannot record off of RF

Are you sure ? It does not seems to be true on 630H model.

The Ugly:
*the title (name) editing screen opens with a default of lower case, even though almost every title will begin with UPPER CASE

On 630 model it will start with UPPER CASE.

[doxtorRay]

donpedro:
The 630 is the European model. That is the difference. In fact, the specs for the US 633H are different from the European 630H (we get a smaller hard drive, for example).

On the 531/533/633, you can either

(1) load the EPG, requiring 24 hours of download time. The TVGuide EPG only works for cable or local stations (no satellite). Doing so allows you to set manual timers on RF, but you still have to use the EPG interface to do so.

(2) bypass the EPG altogether by saying you don't have an antenna or cable attached (as I did, since I have satellite). However, if you do this, you are not able to select any over-the-air channel on a manual timer later-- you can only designate L1, L2, or L3. Thus, if you know when some program is on a local station, and want to record it without using the EPG at all, you cannot.

You either download the EPG or you cannot set a timer on RF.

I'm glad your titling capitalization is the "correct" format

[FulciLives]

(2) bypass the EPG altogether by saying you don't have an antenna or cable attached (as I did, since I have satellite). However, if you do this, you are not able to select any over-the-air channel on a manual timer later-- you can only designate L1, L2, or L3. Thus, if you know when some program is on a local station, and want to record it without using the EPG at all, you cannot.

You either download the EPG or you cannot set a timer on RF.

Yes but just about any Cable box or Satellite box has A/V outputs ... not just RF ... so is it that hard to output the A/V to the DVD Recorder then program on the L1 or L2 or L3 etc.?

Graned you have to program the DVD Recorder and the Cable/Satellite box but so what? Ain't no big deal.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[TBoneit]

Yeah, So far I'm loving it, Adjust the input video with a preview as you do it. Good Quality recording. very adjustable for bitrate in increments that seem to make sense.

I'm thinking of retiring my Detailer II since this unit seems to have enough adjustments in it. And Also maybe retire my ADVC-100 except for extreme cases.

The benefit of adjusting with this unit is that I'm adjusting to the end display device, in this case my TV set. Whereas if I adjust video levels in the computer they'll likely be off on the TV.

What's your thoughts on simpilfying captures like this. Myself I like to simplify my life, it is too short to spend endless time tweaking.

Cheers

[OldeMan]

The 531 is my first HDD recorder. Lots of adjustments (input and output) and excellent picture. My gripes are minor, don't like the way Pioneer handles finalized DVD menus and lack of automatic chapter markers when recording to the HDD. 531 noise level doesn't bother me and also runs cool unlike my other recorders.

EPG refuses to load via S-video on my digital cable system so I have it turned off.

However, Pioneer is one of the only DVD recorders that uses the same record/stop commands as its VCRs. Thus, my Time-Warner SA3250HD cable box has no trouble using its VCR commander(w/IR blaster) to control the 531's HDD recording from the cable systems own EPG guide. Only drawback is that I have to leave the 531 on.

I have recorded up to three shows on different channels unattended this way. I use L1 (S-video) as input to the 531.

I have no use whatsoever for the RF input on the 531 as my particular SA3250HD settop box does NOT have a RF output..

[doxtorRay]

Yes but just about any Cable box or Satellite box has A/V outputs ... not just RF ... so is it that hard to output the A/V to the DVD Recorder then program on the L1 or L2 or L3 etc.?

Graned you have to program the DVD Recorder and the Cable/Satellite box but so what? Ain't no big deal.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

True, John, but I don't get my local channels from the satellite, I get them OTA. Even if I know when a program is on locally (not needing an EPG), I cannot set the timer for a local station unless I load the EPG. However, since the recorder's EPG does not load the satellite info, I have to get that from the satellite's EPG anyway.

Neither the 420 nor 510 require this, and using them to record a mix of OTA and satellite broadcasts is possible.

Just an option to say "no thanks" to the EPG would be enough.

I am sure this works much better if one has the kind of cable service for which it was designed, but I thought Pioneer was selling DVD recorders, not cable subscriptions.

I intended to use the 531 for timer recordings (because of the nice PQ at MN13 mode) and shift my 510 into tape dubbing duties, but I guess I'll have to keep the 510 as my timer recorder, and stick with SP or MN19 for everything.

[bbanderic]

Just an option to say "no thanks" to the EPG would be enough.

I have the 633 and I'm not down with the TV Guide thing at all, I hate the way it's constantly downloading. I wish they would give the option to turn it off completely and just use manual recording with VCR plus, which this unit doesn't have.

[TBoneit]

Well FWIW I have both Sat TV and basic cable like others here. I just put a simple splitter in the cable feed from outside, ran one line to the TV input on the 531 and connected a short cable from the splitter to where the Cable feed used to hook. Voila, EPG loads, auto time set will work, I can record local channels from cable direct from the EPG and still have the other cable functionality I had before. Now that I have added a HR-S9911U yesterday I'll be running a short cable from the RF out of the Pioneer to the RF input of the VCR mainly for the autoclock setting and so it doesn't always show a blue screen from no signal.

I think I'm finally more or less completed my setup.
I'm now setup for VHS to DVD, Tivo to DVD, Cable to DVD, Satellite to DVD. TBC for tape stability.

Decent DVD Recorder, Decent VCR for VHS to DVD, Tivo on Cable. Pioneer for backup tivo-like recording. DVRs (4 tuners/3 Boxes) from dishnetwork. Mostly this equipment (The DVRs/Tivo) gets it only workout during sweeps weeks and when I want to sample all the new shows the networks drop on us in the fall and january.

Plenty of adjustments in the 531, Sunday I had to lighten the picture from tape and correct the color and lower the inttensity of the color, and sharpen a bit, all on one tape. Using the preview mode it was easy from a normal watching distance to get optimal results. The old way I'd have had two extra pieces of equipment in the signal chain and have to keep going back and forth to judge the result.

SO IMHO a bit pricey between the TBC, 531H & the 9911U for equipment but hopefully I'm set for a while now.

Cheers

[Seeker47]

Thanks to gshelley61 and doxtorRay for their reviews.

I don't know what would be considered a good price on the 531, but I saw this this morning:

http://www.onecall.com/Shipping.SHP?CartProductID=28742&NewQty=1&PMOID=3296&PMOCID=340...=pdpiodvr533hs

(For the record, I have no affiliation whatever with this merchant. Have heard of them, only.)

The page indicates that this new model still has just an 80G HDD, something of a disappointment.

I can tell you that, so far, I have seen NO 531s or 533s on a store shelf, anywhere. Good Guys says they haven't seen these yet and can barely fill outstanding orders on the 520. Circuit City apparently does not even carry Pioneer, and the only Pioneer anything that I've seen at Fry's is one model of computer burner. Not to place the brick & mortar establishments above online purchase necessarily, but the *authorized* online dealers for Pioneer are a small sub-set of the total, and I have heard tell of warranty problems in this regard.

[heavyharmonies]

Onecall is where I got mine from. Great price from an authorized Pioneer dealer.

Yes, the 80GB drive seems small compared to some of the other recorders out there, but I'm coming from a 40GB DMR-HS2, so it seems HUGE to me.

-Dan

[gshelley61]

I've been down for a few days with a summer cold, so I haven't dug much further into my 531. I'm wrong about the fan, though. It must be mounted inside the unit somewhere. Still, it does run very cool and doesn't get warm when it is off. So far, I really like this unit. If you have cable, the TV Guide thing is OK to have and not much of an intrusion.

There are 531's, 533's and 633's for sale on eBay already for quite a bit less than from authorized online merchants... if you don't mind the taking the risk of probably not having access to any Pioneer warranty service should your unit break down.

[TBoneit]

I'd call first before making the trip. However I bought mine at Walmart. Watchung, NJ.

I've been using the built-in adjustments to correct and/or lighten some videotapes & correct some color errors. It may not be as powerful as a standalone unit but it is doing the job on most tapes.

Editing is easy.
doxtorRay: For the title (name) editing screen I just put all the Caps in and then go back and do all the lowercase and spaces. I find that quicker than always switching back and forth.

a couple of things, the TV Guide seems a bit slow but usable. Always seems to display the TV Guide when turned on.

Cheers

[TBoneit]

Ok, An update. I've been reading the manual, When all else fails etc....

Page 79 in ther manual makes it a snap to enter the title for the recording. Here I've been doing it the hard way using the onscreen keyboard!

On page 79 it shows how to use the keys on the remote to easily and quickly enter the title. Example: Prev/Next buttons change case. Clear Key clears letters off of the title, the 2 key toggles between a,b, & c. the Pause key inserts a space.

Boy do I feel dumb doing it the hard way.

Cheers

[sync]

Yes, using the remote keys is very handy.

That's one of the things they removed from the 23x models.

[sapiendut]

I only have regular analog cable from Rogers, will I have problem with the TV Guide? Seriously there is no other way for me to record OTA/analog cable without the use of TV Guide?