Which camcorder have you purchased recently and are you happy with it?

[Captain Satellite]

My current camcorder is about 7 or 8 years old and is VHS-C format. I could really use some help and guidance in selecting a new camcorder. My needs are quite simple; family and simple work related projects. All editing will be done on computer.

I know NOTHING about the current crop of camcorders, so any and all comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

[JimboS]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/d/blog.htm

Look here...On the left are camcorder ratings etc....

[edDV]

A quick top level format guide.

Default choice is MiniDV. A proven workhorse.
Pro: High SD quality with all frames recorded. Quality is only limited by camera sensor.
Con: 1hr magnetic tapes. Not much of a con in my book.

SD Alternatives
--------------------------------------
DVD MPeg2 or hard disk MPeg2.
Pro: Records to playable 3"DVDR disk or to mini hard drive.
Con: Lower quality MPeg2 vs. DV format, more difficult to edit., quality drops when recompressed.

HD Alternatives
--------------------------------------
HDV
Pro: 1440x1080i resolution. Uses same MinDV tape format.
Cons: More highly compressed MPeg2. Difficult to edit.

AVCHD (MPeg4 AVC)
Pro: SDcard or DVDR recording media
Con: Even more compressed and more difficult to edit.

[Captain Satellite]

Ed, Any problems with dropouts or deteriorating tapes?

[JohnnyMalaria]

I'm with edDV on this one.

My most recent camcorder acquisition was a used Sony PDX10 that I got off e-bay in late 2005.

My oldest MiniDV camcorder is a Sony DCR-SC100 - about 8 years old. The tapes that I recorded with it (underwater videos in 1999-2001) play just fine. No deterioration or dropouts when I watched them a couple of weeks ago. In fact, I'm looking forward to jumping in the ocean with it again very soon - once my housing gets back from being serviced.

I doubt I will ever go the HDV route - recording to MPEG2 just isn't right! I expect I'll wait until I can afford a DVCProHD camcorder....

[edDV]

Ed, Any problems with dropouts or deteriorating tapes?

Not yet for me. Unlike Hi8 or SVHS, DV camcorders have very good dropout compensation. You just don't see them. Not a problem. You can very good DV camcorders on Craigslist at very good prices. Many people buy them and rarely use them.

[racer-x]

I recently just purchased a Canon HV20 (HDV) Camcorder. It really is all that and much more. I still own 3 mini-dv (SD) camcorders, including a Panasonic GS500.

If you're a video editing newbie or have a weak PC, stick to SD mini-dv. If you're a video enthusiest like me and have a strong PC, then by all means, get HDV. With new good NLE's like Premiere Pro or Vegas, editing is a piece of cake. The only issue is getting it into a playable full resolution media. You can allways write it back to tape though..............

[edDV]

I recently just purchased a Canon HV20 (HDV) Camcorder. It really is all that and much more. I still own 3 mini-dv (SD) camcorders, including a Panasonic GS500.

If you're a video editing newbie or have a weak PC, stick to SD mini-dv. If you're a video enthusiest like me and have a strong PC, then by all means, get HDV. With new good NLE's like Premiere Pro or Vegas, editing is a piece of cake. The only issue is getting it into a playable full resolution media. You can allways write it back to tape though..............

I agree for the advanced intermediate user. But HDV is a big step from VHS-C. The edit process takes some learning. MiniDV is perfect for most people. The picture quality is going to depend on the camera section.

[Captain Satellite]

I've done tons of video editing, DVD authoring, conversion, lots of experience. Is MiniDV still the way to go? Lower quality? Is it a format that will be obsolete soon? Looking at HDV specs, it's really way more than I need, although I can afford it. My PC specs are in my profile. I really apreciate the advice, guys.

[edDV]

I've done tons of video editing, DVD authoring, conversion, lots of experience. Is MiniDV still the way to go? Lower quality? Is it a format that will be obsolete soon? My PC specs are in my profile. I really apreciate the advice, guys.

What editor do you use?

How much do you want to spend on a camcorder?

Have you done anything with HD MPeg2_TS captures and understand the processing time differences?

[SingSing]

A canon mid to high end dv cam.

[Captain Satellite]

I've done tons of video editing, DVD authoring, conversion, lots of experience. Is MiniDV still the way to go? Lower quality? Is it a format that will be obsolete soon? My PC specs are in my profile. I really apreciate the advice, guys.

What editor do you use?

How much do you want to spend on a camcorder?

Have you done anything with HD MPeg2_TS captures and understand the processing time differences?

That would be beyond anything I've done, but I knew nothing a couple of years ago and learned everything I know now here. I'm not against learning anything new if I can benefit from it. Is MiniDV on the way out? Not more than 1000.00. I have a few editors. Not sure which type you mean.

[edDV]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-Camcorder-Review.htm
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Camcorder-Review.htm

These are the hot new advanced intermediate consumer HDV camcorders. I'm considering one myself for a small travel camcorder.

For the same money you could find a semi-pro 3CCD DV model on the used market.

[Captain Satellite]

I appreciate your help, Ed. I'm confident I can learn what I need to, I'm just unsure of the format to choose. It's family stuff and work-related stuff that would be imported into PowerPoint presentations. Obviously nothing blockbuster-worthy.

Would you agree with this statement:

"MiniDV is the venerable old man of the camcorder industry, and is quickly being ushered out, despite many adherents."

[edDV]

I appreciate your help, Ed. I'm confident I can learn what I need to, I'm just unsure of the format to choose. It's family stuff and work-related stuff that would be imported into PowerPoint presentations. Obviously nothing blockbuster-worthy.

Would you agree with this statement:

"MiniDV is the venerable old man of the camcorder industry, and is quickly being ushered out, despite many adherents."

DV will be around for some time. It has all the tools in place, is easier to handle and edit but high def is the future.

The problems with consumer high def include.

1. Poor low light performance. They really suck for indoors and huge HDTV screens make the noise and MPeg artifacts look worse. What good is high definition noise?

2. Editing (filtering and encoding) takes 4-6 times longer than DV. For us it's like losing 5 years of computer progress. It just drags. Good news is quad and 8 core CPUs coming soon.

3. Nowhere to take your video except back to tape. True you can do playable 20-40 min HD DVD MPeg2 discs if you follow the steps. BD/HD authoring for consumers is a way out yet. So you have to downscale back to 720x480i for distribution on a normal DVD and that software downscale takes hours.

There is a compromise. These cameras have real time hardware HDV to DV downscale capabilities that let you transfer over normal IEEE-1394 as 480i DV, edit as DV and author to normal 720x480i DVD. You save the HDV version on tape for the future. You can also play HDV unedited to your HDTV or you can separately edit an HD version.

The only problem then is poor camera performance especially under low light. I'm used to what a VX-2100/PD-170 DV cam or above can do so I'm a bit spoiled.

[edDV]

A #4 is obvious. The camcorder, editing software, displays and computers are very expensive now. New versions will be cheaper and better. Premiere Pro or Vegas are expensive to buy now and each new version upgrade is $200-250.

The difference between HDV now and HDV in two years can mean $ thousands.

[edDV]

Here are some differences at 15 lux which is fairly bright room lighting.
PD170 DV 3CCD (VX-2100 similar)left HC-7 right

[edDV]

Panasonic AG-DVC30 DV 3CCD left Canon HC20 right

[thecoalman]

I purchased a Canon GL2 about a 2 and half years ago and was/am very pleased with it. Suprisingly it's still nearly the same price it was then.

[Captain Satellite]

Thanks for the replies, everybody. Ed, I REALLY appreciate the time you took to reply. I need a camera that offers decent quality while at the same time being easy enough for my wife to operate. After considering all of the advice you have posted here, along with browsing the camcorder forum, it looks like the Sony HC-96 would be a good choice. Please let me know what you think. While I do have the budget for a higher end camcorder, I need to consider something for my wife to operate.

Thanks again for all of the great advice!

[turk690]

You might also want to consider Canon Elura 100, or the latest Panasonic 3CCD PV-GS320.

[Captain Satellite]

You might also want to consider Canon Elura 100, or the latest Panasonic 3CCD PV-GS320.

Wow, you're right, I just checked them out. How do I decide? All my cameras have been Canon, my Panasonic DVD Recorder is a workhorse, my Sony computer has been VERY reliable. Help!

[GeorgeW]

I have the Elura 100, and have been very happy with it. My wife can operate it with ease, it's compact to carry around. It has "true" widescreen recording -- which is a plus. I don't think I can go back to 4:3 recording -- it just looks better in widescreen to me. It also has A/D conversion with pass-thru. This is a powerful feature for converting analog video to DV into your computer.

I saw some of the newer Canon models on sale recently -- the ZR830/850 models (I'm not sure which has A/D conversion with pass-through), but they are under $300. So maybe you could use it as a "bridge" camcorder until you are ready to get into the HD world.

Whatever make/model you decide -- two options I would recommend are A/D Conversion with pass-trhough, and "True" Widescreen recording.

Regards,
George

[vico1]

I've got a Canon ZR700 MiniDV cam...does everything I bought it for...

[dfisher052]

I'm using a Sony Digital8 That takes great pictures. The most important features for me is a mic input & headphone jack. Trying to find a replacement in the under $1000 catagory has become impossible. I'd like to get one of the new harddrive cams but there is nothing in that pricerange that has mic input AND headphone. Manufacturers are starting to skimp on features.

[edDV]

I'm using a Sony Digital8 That takes great pictures. The most important features for me is a mic input & headphone jack. Trying to find a replacement in the under $1000 catagory has become impossible. I'd like to get one of the new harddrive cams but there is nothing in that pricerange that has mic input AND headphone. Manufacturers are starting to skimp on features.

Calls for a rant.

For a typical "semi-pro" result, the issues have less to do with resolution and more to do with exposure and audio level control. Everybody except inexperienced consumers know this.

Manufacturers want to charge more for features that are critical to Prosumers and up. They want to sell expensive high tech camcorders to the masses but take extreme care to see they are unacceptable or fall short to "those in the know". They reserve the critical features to their "pro" lines that sell for 50-200% more.

This game has been going on for decades and knowing this background helps you to understand the between the lines at Camcorderinfo.com.

In the past the performance issues were tougher like resolution and signal to noise. It was easy to keep the Pro vs consumer lines in separate worlds. Today, consumer models have acceptable resolution and signal to noise so the manufacturers withheld low light performance (by using smaller sensors and degrading optics) and limited exposure control and audio performance to make pro results near impossible.

The camcorder manufacturers respond by saying the consumer customer rejects camcorder weight and bulk and will give up picture and audio performance in favor of small size. They use this as an excuse to cut sensor sizes and take away iris/focus wheels and manual audio controls when none of this adds much to camcorder cost, bulk or weight. Everybody knows what is going on.

They are creating an artificial boundary between the pro and consumer lines. That is why a used pro model may be a better buy than a new high tech consumer model if your goal is a professional looking and sounding result.

The camcorder manufacturers will probably respond that consumers don't care about results and only buy on features. They would say that the average consumer never even uses the camcorder, or if they do, they never proceed to editing.

They are probably right on that.

/rant off

[thecoalman]

I need to consider something for my wife to operate.

Well I don't know about every cam but I think no matter what one purchase they all have a point a shoot mode.

Manufacturers want to charge more for features that are critical to Prosumers and up.

Just to add, they also want to charge an exhobitant amount more for features between the prosumer and pro cams. The biggest thing IMO is the lense mount, seems they jump about $2000 in price between cams without that feature.

[lordsmurf]

Canon DV Z-series with a DiGic CCD.

[Captain Satellite]

I really appreciate the replies. I've always purchased Canon equipment. I've been browsing the forums over the weekend and the Canon Elura 100 and Sony HC-96 keep coming up. It looks like the Canon has been discontinued.

lordsmurf, Is there any particular model you would recommend from Canon?

[MJA]

I got the ZR-500 for my sister last year .its only $179 .here is a link

my self.I own the Optura 60 and I love it

Video test size is 52MB

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t131848.html




as the mentioned earlier.all budget comcorders sux in low light