Which Pioneer DVR's are backward compatible with 220-S?

[Brent G.]

Well, I sort of stepped in it this time.

I had to replace my Pioneer 220s after the burner gave out. I got a Pioneer 233 but now I find out it can't read unfinalized DVD's that I created on the 200s. Yes, I know I should have finalized the DVD's as I made them, but I never had time. Now I have stacks of unfinalized DVD's that were made with the 220s.

So are there any Pioneer machines out there that can read my 220s unfinalized DVDs?
(Or can I somehow finalize the disks on my computer?)

TIA
Brent

[Epicurus8a]

I've used a Pioneer 420H-s to do this without any problems. I suspect the 520H-s will work too. BTW, both of these machines have 80GB HDD.

[Brent G.]

I only found a Pioneer DVR-543HS in stock in town. Will that work?
TIA
Brent

[Frobozz]

If you recorded those in Video mode then you may need to get that recorder repaired. If you recorded in VR mode then some Pioneer players and recorders should be able to play the discs.

This is from my Pioneer DVR-510H-S manual:

"You cannot play, edit or record on unfinalized DVD-R/RW discs recorded in Video mode on other DVD recorders. (Likewise, unfinalized Video mode discs recorded on this recorder are not playable on other players/recorders).

"Some DVD players, such as some Pioneer models, are compatible with VR mode DVD-RW discs."

[Epicurus8a]

You might have to check auction sites for a used machine. (Probably $200 or less for one with a HDD.)

[awhite2600]

I could be wrong, but I think the information needed to finalize the disc is stored in memory within the recorder.

When you format the disc, it is assigned a Disc ID by the recorder. I have a Pioneer 220 and I am fairly certain that the manual states that the recorder can remember 50 discs. (I'm at work right now, so I can't check the manual.)

There may be some software out there that can read the sectors of the disc and attempt to recreate the TOC but I have never found it.

Sorry, but I think that Frobozz is correct - you will have to get the recorder repaired.

[Brent G.]

I could be wrong, but I think the information needed to finalize the disc is stored in memory within the recorder.

I think you're wrong here. Otherwise only the recorder that recorded the video could finalize it, and of course that's not true. Any DVR-220-s should be able to finalize the DVD's. The information is on the DVD, it just has to be assembled so its in the standard format. Otherwise if you unplugged the DVD recorder or if you do a firmware update, all of your DVD couldn't be finalized either, which isn't the case. BTW, I only used the standard VR-Mode.

Sorry, but I think that Frobozz is correct - you will have to get the recorder repaired.

I tried, but the local authorized Pioneer repair center cannot do dvd burner replacements (need special tool that Pioneer would give them) and the unit had to be sent to Pioneer, which is where I sent it. But Pioneer replaced my 220 with the 233. This was the second time the burner had to be replaced so they sent me a 233 instead. My 220 was just out of warranty so beggars can't be choosers I guess.

Brent

[awhite2600]

BTW, I only used the standard VR-Mode.

I think finalizing works differently between Video mode and VR mode. I never use VR mode as I usually need DVD compliant discs that my kids can use in their standalone DVD players. I must admit that I don't have access to a second recorder, so I have never tried to record on one machine and finalize on another.

[samijubal]

You can definitely record on one machine and finalize on another of the same model, I've done it many times. I've recorded and finalized on different model Panasonics, but I don't know about using different models with other manufacterers. Does the 233 record in VR mode? If not that's why you can't finalize the discs.

[Brent G.]

Oops, sorry guys, I meant I only use Video Mode because the problem is with DVD-R disks and that's the only way they can be formatted. I tried VR Mode briefly for DVD-RW disks but switched back after I found out I can't play them in some machines.

I went out and bought a Pioneer DVR-540H-s today hoping it would allow me to finalize the DVD-R disks made with my Pioneer DVR-220-s. Sure enough it did. It had no problem reading the unfinalized disks and finalizing them. The problem is entirely with the Pioneer 233-s machine that can't read the unfinalized 220 disks. Go figure. According to Pioneer the DVR-233-S should be able to read the unfinalized DVR-220-S disks. I've tried close to a dozen unfinalized disks and still no joy. Looks like I'll have to use the 540H.

Brent

[Frobozz]

The Pioneer 233 is a piece of junk and is lacking the 32 different bit rate settings that the other Pioneer models have and is minus several other nice features that were on the 220. I bet that's the reason it couldn't read your discs. Glad to hear the 540 saved the day. Good to know!

[Epicurus8a]

Thanks for posting the good news about the 540H.

[Brent G.]

The Pioneer 233 is a piece of junk and is lacking the 32 different bit rate settings that the other Pioneer models have

Yes, I will certainly miss that variable record rate feature. Surprisingly though the Pioneer 540H-s (hard disk model) is also missing the variable bit rate. It has only the standard recording times too.

I suspect the 233-s is made by someone else other than Pioneer. The unfinalized disks made by the 233-s is unreadably by the 220-s and the 540-s and vice-versa. So they must be using a different formatting for the disks. Thankfully once finalized the disks are readable in any machine.

The only good thing to say about the 233-s is that the slight green tint that I got with the 220-s and the Panasonic E55 and the Lite-on 5100 is now gone. Flesh tone is great and the SP and even EP recordings look even better than the 220-s.

Just make no doubt the 233-s is a stripped down version of the 220-s. There is no go back 'x' seconds which I miss dearly. There is no A-B repeat, and the titling is from hell. You can't edit the titles from the Navigator which is a huge mistake. If I have 6 programs recorded on a DVD and I have to title them, I have to go into the navigator which takes 3-5 seconds to load *each* picture (extremely slow), and wait 30 seconds for all 6 pictures to display before I can play a title to find the name of the show, then exit the navigator completely to go into edit titles and enter the title. They forgot to include the >| to switch from upper case to lower case and the pause key no longer puts in a blank. So half the time I have to move all the way to the space and case buttons when entering the titles. Then when I'm finished with that 1 title, I exit that and then call up the navigator, wait 20-30 seconds for the 6 pictures to appear, play the next title, and so on and so on. Man it's a PIA. There is also no way to capture an image like you can on the 540-s. The 233-s remote buttons are spongy and lack any detent action so it is unresponsive at times. The 540-s remote is far superior. It's almost like the 233-s is a first generation DVR, and they've thrown out the ergonomics that Pioneer has learned from its prior DVR's.

Would I recommend a 233-s? Only if it is heavily discounted (40% off) and used as a second DVR. I'm sure the more I use it, the more I'll grow to hate it. I'm not sure why a company like Pioneer would put their customers through all this hell because if this had been my first Pioneer machine, I'd never buy anything from Pioneer again. If I had been part of the testing team that evaluates products, I would have junked the 233-s and forced them to rework the design.

Brent

[Frobozz]

Thanks for the report on the 233. My comment about it being junk is based only on observation of the unit on a store shelf and noticing how much was missing compared with the 220.

I'm surprised that your 540 doesn't have the MN settings. When I read the 640/540 manual I noticed that the manual settings were present but I don't recall mention that this was only for the 640. Are you sure it's not present? You need to activate the option in the setup menu before it is available.

[Brent G.]

My comment about it being junk is based only on observation of the unit on a store shelf and noticing how much was missing compared with the 220.

Yes there are quite a few "must have" features missing from the 233. But keep in mind the 233-s is less than 1/2 the price of the 220-s. So I guess the missing features is to be expected.

I'm surprised that your 540 doesn't have the MN settings. When I read the 640/540 manual I noticed that the manual settings were present but I don't recall mention that this was only for the 640. Are you sure it's not present? You need to activate the option in the setup menu before it is available.

Oops! Yeah, you're right. I had to go into the setup and enable Manual Recording which then allowed the variable bit rate. I don't know why they'd hide an important feature like that. The 540H machine isn't bad. Ironically it is the same price that I paid for my 220-s some 20 months ago. Now if it only had replaceable drives like the LG, then I'd be really happy. As it is, it may last me 18 months before it dies. My Pioneer dvr-220-s lasted 11.5 months before the burner died (just inside the warranty period) and then it was repaired by Pioneer and lasted another 6-7 months. Pioneer just replaced it with a 233-s instead of fixing the 220-s yet again. If there ever was something that needed an extended warranty, it is DVD recorders. I only wish I had bought one for my 220 because it would have been covered for 4 years.

Brent

[Seeker47]

The 540H machine isn't bad.

Actually, if this is the same model as the 640H -- just the version that is sold in Canada -- it happens to be one of the best DVD recorders Pioneer ever made, which I think is saying a lot. Some people prefer certain features that were present on the (U.S.) models 52x or 63x, but, however you look at it, this is still an excellent recorder. You may come around to that opinion too, the more you use it.

I would suggest you dig into a thread about the 640 on the AVS Forum, which had grown to 71 webpages in length, the last time I checked. Some good tips and links there.