More failures with TY than HP, is Taiyo Yuden overated.

[kevs]

this deserves a new thread.
I returned hundred of HP spindal because of a 7% failure rate.

But of first 6 disc burned with TY 3 have failed, even before the duplicating stage.

Is Taiyo Yuden overated?

[AlanHK]

Everyone has bad days.

However, it's possible these are fake TYs.

[oldandinthe way]

It is also possible that the firmware in your drive does not have a write strategy for the particular TY media or for that matter the HP media.

Are you burning 16x media in a drive that has gone a long time without a firmware update?

[TBoneit]

FWIW I use both of those for different reasons in 2 different LiteOn burners, current models. And they both work flawlessly for me. They will pass the burning software's verify pass and a scandisc and playability test. Burned with Nero 6.x and DVD Decrypter. I also have no problems with Verbatim +R -R, Sony MIJ and Sony MIT, Ritek +R DLs (memorex) in these LiteOns. Had problems with a Pioneer 109 and a older 1633 LiteOn so the burner is most likely culprit.

[RabidDog]

7% failure rate ?? You're a picky SOD, look at the other side of the coin thats a 93% success rate! TY are good ritek are good verbatim are good .. so are tescos own brand !

[cyflyer]

oldandinthe way-

Are you burning 16x media in a drive that has gone a long time without a firmware update?

You know, I burn 16x media in my liteon 851 with the original firmware at 4x without a single coaster (TY's, Verbatims) . Ok the updated firmware will allow the 16x media to seen as 16x media and burn at the higher speeds I suppose, but outdated firmware should not be a reason for multi coasters if you're burning at the speeds of your original firmware.

Kevs- Your failure rate suggests something else is amiss. You fail to give a clue about what exactly you are doing. What program are you using ?
what speed are you burning at ?
are you multitasking on your computer ?
what TY's, where did they come from ? (they are recognised as the best, IF they are true TY's)

[guns1inger]

I can sympathise. Even with relatively recent firmware and only 8x Fuji branded TYs I got around 50% success. Verbatim and TDK, even Ritek G05's have a 100% success rate in my burner. Such are the vaguries of the process.

The best advice is to try the better brands until you find one that works for you, and stick to it until it stops. Eventually it will, either because of your burner getting old, or the brand changing suppliers. At which point, you start looking again.

[deuce8pro]

Never have a problem with the 4x or 8x ty's.

[guns1inger]

Happy for you, but it means nothing. There are people here who have never had a problem with WinAVI. I know guys who have train-surfed and are still alive. I wouldn't take either as a recommendation to do either activity. This user is having a problem with TYs, and is not alone. The fact that they work for you has no bearing on his life.

[cyflyer]

Is this turning into a Taiyo Yuden bashing session ????
Before you start sympathysing with him Gunslinger, he hasn't answered the most fundumental questions yet about what he's doing.

[hech54]

This user is having a problem with TYs, and is not alone.

If he is having problems with genuine TY's then he or his setup is doing something wrong...and he is 99% alone in his troubles with TY in my opinion.

[punisher]

I do agree, if someone is getting a bad burn on genuine TY media, the problem is on the users side be it hardware, software or user arror.

That being said, over the last 6 months I have been getting signifigantly better quality burns with MCC and even (sometimes)Moser Baer India media. PI failures usually run under 100 for MCC and MBI, TY sub 200, both are still quality burns. Burns made with BenQ 1655, LG4167 and an ancient Pioneer 107, scans in BenQ.

[oldandinthe way]

Assuming that higher speed offerings from the same manfacturer are compatible with the firmware for lower speed offerings is risky business.

Although cyflyer may get acceptable burns at 4x on 16x media using a particular manufacturer's drive (without firmware entries for that media) there is no reason to assume the owner of another manufacturer's drive will have successful results under similar circumstances.

If all that mattered was recognizing the media code, the so-called "counterfeit" disks would show better performance.

Similar risks exist with hacked firmware which simply clone the entry for another media type and change the mediaID.

There are reasons that most of the failed burns in the media reports come from owners of drives whose manufacturers are slow or unresponsive in firmware updates.

Re scans - I remain skeptical of scan data until someone does a reliable comparison of drive scans to test equipment scans. The BenQ vs Lite-On differences are suggestive that scans may be reliable to provide information on the quality of DVDs writen on a drive when read back on the same drive. The fact that many drive manufacturers do not provide scan capability may be based solely on cost or may be based on their own skepticism about the value of scans.

[GKar]

As with so many others who post about a problem, they don't say what drive they are using, firmware they are using, the media code of the disks and the software they are burning with.

[Capmaster]

<ahem> When was the last time you cleaned your laser lens?

[slacker]

Capmaster,

How often are you supposed to clean your lens?

[kevs]

Old:
I"m burining to the Sony recorder. With HP, very rarely did I have issue. With TY, is works, but much more bad burns than HP. the TY came from Rima, last week, great source

So this is baffling, that why I'm posting. the firmware should be fine, because it's working sometimes for TY.

Maybe the machine doesn't like taste of TY so much.

The Recorder is only couple months old-- Sony's newest unit--DVD recorder, not computer.

Rabid: I thought failure rate wasn't so bad, but another guy on another thread of mine here, said 1 bad burn in 30 wasn't so good, and he has failure rate of only 2-3% with TY, so I figured why not swap over to TY, and there is also idea with better media and dyes, the media will last longer and be more reliable over time. Now I don't hoot about TY. I done with that brand really. I think I had problems a few years ago as well. I think it's just what flavor your unit likes.

Unless someone know of a site that really does rigourous consumer reports style and current reports on media.

Cyflyer: again, not on computer, I"m on the Sony recorder. thanks.

Good points Gunslinger

[LCSHG]

I have used a nomber of different Disks from what is consirered the BEST to that considered, The bottom of the bucket like CMC MAG [which I have had no problems with ]
I had some problems with TY and Verbatim [OR I thought so] But than found that the DVD drive in one unit was unreliable in burning and the other failures were mine in attempting to fight the real problem.
The Issue was OPERATOR ERROR Not Disk failure.

I use mainly Verbatim diskks +R, -R and +RW

Why ? because they are very good ones I have No problems and I bought a ton of them at a
very good price. I have also used Ritek

As to Sony
I used to consider Sony Equip. To be the Best
Not any longer,
Their Equip [Especially Consumer] is to a great extent not made by them, but bought from other vendors With additional CP tacked on.
Their Equip. has become a vastly Overpriced Item that in to many cases [Because of their obsession with CP] will not function correctlt]y.
In the case Of DVD Problems they blame this on a Particular DISK that a person might be using at the time

Now! That is not to say all Sony Equip, is junk It is just way over Priced for what you Get

Many of the DVD drives provided by Sony are made for Sony By LiteOn

[oldandinthe way]

The firmware burns sometimes because it has your drive using a marginal write strategy. If it had the proper strategy you should get consistant results.

The specs for DVD media are loose. In order to compensate for the allowed variations the firmware on you drive has a write strategy based upon the drive hardware and the media characteristics which is used to write a particular media ID.

Wrong write strategy ==> coasters - sometimes or always.

It used to be that Japanese badged drives always had a proper strategy for TY, but often did not have a proper strategy for some non-Japanese brands. Now we see Japenese badges on drives designed and built elsewhere and TY is just another media maker. Given the huge volume of CMC and other brands of writeable media being sold, minimizing support costs makes drive makers concentrate their efforts on higher volume manufacturers.

[LCSHG]

Is a marginal burn to a disk [a—the problem] I didn’t think so because of others use and not having problems with my other units I just couldn’t see it, or it being a firmware issue
Among others I have two ilo RHD 04 units. Both had the orig. DDW 451s LiteOn drives
Both Machines had the latest firmware [1201] hacked . I had NO reason to believe it was the hack but I installed all the Non hacked firmware, including, back some 5 versions, and there was no change, with DVD disks or the speed .

On some disks, and only some, a player might stutter, hiccup or on some players have real problems but never refuse to not play at all. This was with any make of disk The problem was traced to one unit as all the problem disks were only from it.
To make sure I removed both DVD drives and swapped them. Now the Unit that presented a problem worked fine and the Unit that was not a problem presented the problems as above. The units themselves were OK.

As I have used, and use, these units often along with my LiteOn 5045, [firmware 097hacked] I replaced all three with New LiteOn 1693s and 1673s drives. The 5045 had a DDW 813s

I have had no further problems with any disks
I kept the orig. drives to go through and than keep as spares for the R04 and 5005 units



[cyflyer]

I couldn’t agree with you more

I have used 4x and 16x disks in my standalone units and they make no difference in operation [or speed] and that is for 451s or 1693s drives.
I put both drives in a PC and the DVD disk speed makes no difference they burn at the speed the drive is capable of. The 1693s will burn faster than a 451s but only in a PC

[Capmaster]

Capmaster,

How often are you supposed to clean your lens?

Whenever you start getting errors you didn't get before

They're ten bucks, and well worth it.

[kevs]

yes LC, the HP are CMC MAG, and they are doing reasonalbly well actually - good point. it's a fascinating topic. ideally, there would be some site that you could really trust on these ratings

yes, VErbatim seems to be pretty consistent. but whose to say cheaper ones aren't also fine

Old: that an intruiging idea: that the drives are tweaked more to the high volume producers, hence, my Sony recorders difficutly with TY.

[oldandinthe way]

Not so much tweaked as low volume producers are neglected.

Just as in an earlier time the Japanese built drives were ALWAYS tested thoroughly with TY

Look at the brands who are using CMC - they are everywhere, neither those brands, CMC or the drive makers want warranty problems, returns or grief.

By the way my experience with CMC is quite good. All of the failures have shown physical manufacturing defects. Interestingly most occurred with Staples brand CMC media, not HP, IMation, TDK or any of the thers I have used. Could CMC be preforming additional inspections on name-brands?

[kevs]

Old:
why would hp be better than staples? isn't it all made from same soup and then labeled later?

So you agree that a site like this:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

who calls CMC disks garbage is not really be taken seriously. I mean only site i"ve seen rating stuff comprehensively, and from what you and others say, and etc, this site is just overharsh on CMC and not accurate

[ROBERT BLACK]

I can sympathise. Even with relatively recent firmware and only 8x Fuji branded TYs I got around 50% success..

Now, that's odd, I recently had two coasters with the Fuji branded 8x Tys I picked up a couple of days ago.. 50% failure is disasterous to me. Maybe it's just a defective lot? Previous unbranded Tys had a 100% success rate in my burner, as have Verbatims up until this point. I have a Pioneer 110 D with the latest firmware.

[ROBERT BLACK]

Everyone has bad days.

However, it's possible these are fake TYs.

Is it possible although unlikely to me that some of the Fuji branded Tys could be fake? Any reports on this?