Broadcast Flag from CBS

[painkiller]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=326444

I ran across this topic in another site (Tivo Community) and wondered if anyone here has heard of this yet.

Apparently, all the poster includes is just text, and not a link directly to wherever he got this.

This is from an e-mail that CBS sent to Affiliates:

---
Broadcast Flag

In an effort to avoid the problems the music industry has had with proliferation of illegal copies of their content on the Internet, we have been taking a proactive role to mark our High Definition content with a Flag. The purpose of the “Broadcast Flag” is to send a signal to the consumer’s equipment that indicates “this content shall not be redistributed on the Internet”. The appearance of the Viidoo web site that allows anyone with a video capture / tuner card in their PC to post a TV program on the internet, underscores the importance of Broadcast Flag. Many of our content partners and providers are requiring that we agree in our program contracts to encode the Broadcast Flag on the studio master tape and pass the signal all the way through the broadcast chain ( i.e., network Broadcast Center, satellite, affiliate and to the home).

Has anyone seen any further info on this lately?
My understanding is that this may be true for OTA signals, but not so if one is a Directv subscriber.

Too many unknowns here, I think.

[SatStorm]

All I can say, is that the Broadcast flag exist on both FTA and Coded satellite channels in Europe. But, almost all the satellite recievers ignore it

[somebodeez]

I thought OTA was suppose to remain free and clear??

[jagabo]

"free and clear" means not ecrypted.

[Conquest10]

I've heard some people on Directv with Tivo boxes have had this problem. If its not hooked up via HDMI it downrezed.

[edDV]

I've heard some people on Directv with Tivo boxes have had this problem. If its not hooked up via HDMI it downrezed.

That is what the "broadcast flag" is supposed to do. The monitor (or DVR) is supposed to react to the flag with a valid encryption key over the HDMI or DVI (with HDCP). If the encrypted link can't be established, resolution goes to 960x540 or 720x480 max depending on the hardware/firmware. Analog component outputs get locked to 480i/480p for that program.

I would expect the broadcast flag to be high on Pelosi's action list next January.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag
http://www.eff.org/IP/broadcastflag/
http://bpdg.blogs.eff.org/archives/000148.html

[CubDukat]

As if giving "Survivor" a racial bent wasn't reason enough for me not to watch CBS...

Guess I don't need to see "King of Queens" in HD that badly...

Were any HDTV tuner cards actually produced that responded to the broadcast flag? I remember that the manufacturers were all ready to roll out cards, but then the bill was defeated.

I want to find out which tuner cards to avoid in addition to DVICO cards (I'm avoideding them because I have a FusionHDTV2, and it's the biggest POS I've ever seen, and the software's just as bad).

[Seeker47]

I would expect the broadcast flag to be high on Pelosi's action list next January.

Action FOR or action AGAINST ?

And maybe not quite so high on the list when you consider stuff like the minimum wage. There may be only a brief window before inter-party bickering, gridlock and pre-'08 election maneuvering sets in. So it may be a question of just what can they take on and get somewhere with before that happens. Maybe just one or two issues.

[edDV]

I would expect the broadcast flag to be high on Pelosi's action list next January.

Action FOR or action AGAINST ?

And maybe not quite so high on the list when you consider stuff like the minimum wage. There may be only a brief window before inter-party bickering, gridlock and pre-'08 election maneuvering sets in. So it may be a question of just what can they take on and get somewhere with before that happens. Maybe just one or two issues.

Keeping to the topic, the California delegation (D and mostly R) is firmly in Hollywood's pocket. Sorta like supporting potatoes in Idaho.

[akrako1]

Might this effect Comcast HD cable? I connect HD cable box vi component to my TV. Will I start to only get downrezzed images? I also run my cable (via S-Video, non HD) to my DVR-320. Will that start to recognize the flag?

[stiltman]

CBS is not imposing a broadcast flag to downsize HD if not connected via HDMI

And it is not imposed on it's affiliates

[edDV]

Might this effect Comcast HD cable? I connect HD cable box vi component to my TV. Will I start to only get downrezzed images? I also run my cable (via S-Video, non HD) to my DVR-320. Will that start to recognize the flag?

I would expect Comcast to be on the other side of the argument. They have already protected their own content (as they can since they own the boxes) so they don't want the headache of explaining OTA local broadcast flags to their customers (blame the networks and government?).

They could play hardball and refuse to pass the flag since the signal coming to them never goes OTA. Or they could just take the network's HD channel to black when the flag is present . The TV stations need to be on cable more than the cable companies need to carry "difficult" networks. Remember when the cable companies refused to carry Sinclair stations because they demanded payment?

[painkiller]

To Somebodeez:

OTA (over the air hd broadcasts) are to be just like we receive SD ota broadcasts now.
Essentially free.

But eventually the SD analog broadcasts go away (hope I said that right) with the HD/digital OTA taking their place.
Still essentially free.

But with the addition of this broadcast flag, no longer clear.
Meaning, this flag will determine (if and when used) if you can record it for later, or not.

[edDV]

To Somebodeez:

OTA (over the air hd broadcasts) are to be just like we receive SD ota broadcasts now.
Essentially free.

But eventually the SD analog broadcasts go away (hope I said that right) with the HD/digital OTA taking their place.
Still essentially free.

SD 480i DTV broadcasts will probably be here for 20 years or more (not analog but digital versions).

But with the addition of this broadcast flag, no longer clear.
Meaning, this flag will determine (if and when used) if you can record it for later, or not.

It affects both digital recording and high resolution display. The flag is applied program by program.


PS: I like the idea of the cable companies blacking flagged broadcasts and instead run a slide that says

" This local broadcast station has prohibited high definition reception of this program by our customers. You can find the low resolution version of this broadcast on our SD channel #3xx."

[CrayonEater]

Action FOR or action AGAINST ?

would expect the broadcast flag to be high on Pelosi's action list next January.

Hollywood owns the Democratic Party and is one of it's biggest financiers. I'll wager this will be one of their higher priorities.

My concern is that the broadcast flag will be everywhere. I'd be the first to agree that there's nothing on CBS worth watching, but what happens if all the good networks start implementing it?

[somebodeez]

I'm rather confused.
Is this about OTA *HD* content being flagged?
Or OTA SD being flagged ? Or both??

[edDV]

I'm rather confused.
Is this about OTA *HD* content being flagged?
Or OTA SD being flagged ? Or both??

OTA HD for display above 720x480 and recording.
OTA SD for recording.

Record once for closed system DVR is usually allowed.

All this is still in flux.

[stiltman]

I'm rather confused.
Is this about OTA *HD* content being flagged?
Or OTA SD being flagged ? Or both??

I can tell you, neither are flagged

BTW, Comcast where I live, has the chioce of getting the CBS signal from OTA or directly from a fiber link. I can get both. Both are not flagged, either by CBS nor Comcast.

Also shows are not Flagged by a show by show basis. It's either on or off with CBS. In CBS's case, there is no Flag to render down HD without HDMI

[stiltman]

Apparently, all the poster includes is just text, and not a link directly to wherever he got this.

This is the whole problem with this thread

It's just like AOL users, spread the crap and not the truth, because they don't know any better

[somebodeez]

Apparently, all the poster includes is just text, and not a link directly to wherever he got this.

This is the whole problem with this thread

It's just like AOL users, spread the crap and not the truth, because they don't know any better

Which is probably why PK was asking

if anyone here has heard of this yet.

[edDV]

I'm rather confused.
Is this about OTA *HD* content being flagged?
Or OTA SD being flagged ? Or both??

I can tell you, neither are flagged

BTW, Comcast where I live, has the chioce of getting the CBS signal from OTA or directly from a fiber link. I can get both. Both are not flagged, either by CBS nor Comcast.

Also shows are not Flagged by a show by show basis. It's either on or off with CBS. In CBS's case, there is no Flag to render down HD without HDMI

The OP article is future based not current. Better to look at the EFF documents linked above. The original plan was to have the broadcast flag included with all HD broadcasts. "Hollywood" demanded the flag before they would support the FCC plan for HDTV formats. The flag would be applied at the option of the individual program owner. All the manufacturers of set top boxes and OTA tuners were scrambling at the time to get HDCP built into their devices.

Then the federal court ruling in 2005 stopped progress on the broadcast flag. They ruled that the FCC had exceeded it's authority and that Congress would need to act first.

There it has sat. Industry lobby efforts have resulted in "bi partisan" support ( http://beltwayblogroll.nationaljournal.com/archives/2005/10/billblast_bashi.php ).

In California, rights management is top priority with both parties although the (R) guys are more concerned about water rights for farmers vs. Los Angeles developers.

[somebodeez]

I think I'll stick with my plan of waiting to see what direction all this HD stuff goes before I sink any $ into it and hope they won't mess w/ SD or at least if they do, my cap card will ignore whatever flag they may decide to use because it won't recognize it.

sigh

[SatStorm]

It's a little bit of topic, but it is fun to mention it here:
From what I read now, "OTA" in USA stands for the non coded digital channels. In Europe, "OTA" means "On The Air" and is a "term" we use to point out that the firmware upgrades of the satellite and terrestrial digital recievers are on the air and ready to be used if you wish to upgrade your reciever!
The term for the non coded (free) channels in Europe is "F.T.A." which means "Free to Air".

I see confusion rising soon or later at the technical forums, if those terms don't clearify well!

[edDV]

It's a little bit of topic, but it is fun to mention it here:
From what I read now, "OTA" in USA stands for the non coded digital channels. In Europe, "OTA" means "On The Air" and is a "term" we use to point out that the firmware upgrades of the satellite and terrestrial digital recievers are on the air and ready to be used if you wish to upgrade your reciever!
The term for the non coded (free) channels in Europe is "F.T.A." which means "Free to Air".

I see confusion rising soon or later at the technical forums, if those terms don't clearify well!

I think "OTA" in general terms means "over the air" as opposed to cable, dbs or IPTV. It doesn't imply any special coding or DRM.

In the USA the "broadcast flag" was added to the OTA ATSC digital broadcasting spec at the insistence of the media owners. They wanted the ability to restrict display or recording of flagged high defintion content. The history is summarized in the links I posted above.

A similar proposal for Europe is the DVB-CPCM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-CPCM

[SatStorm]

OTA is for USA what FTA is for Europe (and Asia, and Africa).

[RabidDog]

So thats the Viidoo website (just taking notes) where I can download any TV I've missed? thanks for the heads-up.