Pioneer DV-393S; PAL to NTSC Conversion?

[Avory]

I have truly searched this site for a definitive answer to this question...there is solid speculation, but no one has confirmed this for a fact. Please, if anyone knows, will the US version of this player (Region 1) play a region-free PAL disc on an NTSC TV. In other words, does this player have a built in converter that allows PAL discs coded 0 (without region restrictions) to be played on an NTSC TV without a PAL color system.

I called Pioneer and they say no, US sold models are not capable of converting PAL discs for NTSC viewing, but I don't know if they just say this for effect or what.

Other well-informed posters here state that the difference between the Phillips 5140, which advertises multisystem capability, and the Pioneer DV-393S, which does not, are rather marginal, but if the latter can indeed do the conversion, I really, really need the S-output of this model (something sadly lacking in the Phillips).

Can someone with actual experience with the PAL conversion capability of this model please respond? Thank you!

[FulciLives]

If you really want the Pioneer DV-393S then I highly suggest you buy a pre-modifed version that has been hacked to be REGION FREE and is also guaranteed to do PAL to NTSC conversion. Many on-line retailers sell such a thing. One of the cheaper (if not cheapest) on-line retailers would be 220-electronics.com

Now it is my understanding that the chipset in the Pioneer DV-393S is nearly if not exactly the same as that used in the Philips DVP-5140 (both use a recent MediaTek chipset) so the quality of the PAL to NTSC should be the same.

However let me tell you this ... I got the Philips DVP-5140 because of the cheap price and the fact that it does DivX/XviD very well. I am just using it as a DivX/XviD player but I did test some PAL DVD Videos and I was not thrilled with the PAL to NTSC conversion. It is "servicable" but not the best I've seen. I have to admit that I haven't seen the Pioneer DV-393S in action.

Unfortunately there is little choice right now as almost all of the "good" DVD players that do PAL to NTSC use a MediaTek chipset. Now some people have said that some of the Lite-On DVD recorder units (specifically the 5xxx models like the 5005 or 5006 etc.) have really nice PAL to NTSC but I've never seen it with my own eyes. I have no idea what chipset is in the Lite-On units but I am sure that it is not a MediaTek chipset (well I'm pretty sure it is something else).

Finding one of those Lite-On units might be a bit of a trick although it wasn't that long ago that RADIO SHACK was blowing them out at around $99.99 US Dollars. You won't find it on the RADIO SHACK website but you might find one at a RADIO SHACK store still.

Right now the only high quality option is the Oppo Digital OPDV971H or the Oppo Digital DV-981HD and since the DV-981HD is a replacement of the OPDV971H I am assuming that the OPDV971H model will soon disappear. There are two reason why these may not work for you though. One is that they are expensive (the OPDV971H is $199.00 whereas the DV-981HD is $229.00) and the second even bigger caveat is that you need to use DVI out on the OPDV971H or HDMI out on the DV-981HD to take advantage of the built-in DCDi Faroudja chipset which is the magic in making these so good at PAL to NTSC. If you use another form of output (such as S-Video) then the built-in (surprise) MediaTek chipset does the PAL DVD to NTSC conversion. Also note that the other Oppo Digital DVD player (model DV-970HD) has nothing BUT a MediaTek chipset.

So unless you have a TV with either DVI or HDMI and can afford one of the Oppo Digital DVD players (either the OPDV971H or the DV-981HD) you are stuck with MediaTek or Lite-On. I can say that MediaTek is only so-so for PAL to NTSC ... I mean I've seen worse back-in-the-day but it really is not as good as I had hoped for. Perhaps the Lite-On is as good as some claim but I don't know.

You might want to check out a Radio Shack and find out ... at least Radio Shack has a good return policy if you should be unhappy with the Lite-On ... assuming you can find one at this point.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Avory]

John, I was hoping to hear from you, as you are clearly one of the most conscientious posters here and your comments are most appreciated. Since the website you steered me too has a plethora of options, I was wondering if you'd mind giving your opinion on which direction you might take if you were me. Keep in mind I'd prefer the best balance of value and build, realizing that I don't require all the bells and whistles related to HD equipment. This DVD player will not be hooked up to a large screen TV, quite the opposite. I don't require digital outputs (or even component output for that matter), merely S-video, as this player will be output to a Panasonic DMR-E85H DVR. So my emphasis would be more on format playability than advanced audio or video capability.

My requirements are simple: S-Video output and decent PAL to NTSC conversion. I recently bought an extremely nice Pioneer DV-525 on eBay only to discover it plays PAL great, but only to a PAL receiver. So I struck out there.

I'm not wedded to the Pioneer DV-393S option, it just appeared if would do the job, plus play a lot of other options my older DVD players wouldn't. So any DVD player of some quality (no low end options) without audio or video capabilities I don't need (ruling out high end options), and I was hoping to get something solid between $80 and $140. I had a JVC player that did exactly what I wanted (model XV-S500) alas it has always been very spotty handling DVD-R and DVD+R (PAL or NTSC) that other players have no trouble with, and has gotten progressively worse over time.

Still, I'd consider getting another JVC if they still do PAL to NTSC conversion favorably.

Of course your discussion of conversion chipsets would seem to indicate that maybe it doesn't matter which unit I get if it wasn't an Oppo using an HDMI ouput. If the Pioneer DV-393S wasn't hacked to be region free, but had the conversion chip built in and operable, why are you recommending a region free version? If I used region free discs, wouldn't it still have the conversion? Or are you just being cautious that this chip was somehow disabled by the manufacturer if not guaranteed by these resellers?

I'm not concerned about dealing with International Video; it's just that I don't really want to pay for something (region free) I don't really need. (All the PAL discs I get are already region free.) I almost jumped at International's Pioneer DV-490V for $157 shipped, but when I was honest with myself, I felt I'd be overpaying for something that was no different from a model without the HD and upconversion features. If the conversion chipsets are virtually all the same, shouldn't I just be looking for an economical unit that has the broadest format playability in the best build possible? Again, your thoughts about what that might be? And are you saying to forget about taking a chance on a non-modified DV-393S because in all likelihood it won't play PAL discs? (And, please, I realize all advice is just that: an informed opinion. NOT a recommendation.)

[FulciLives]

I have a Hauppauge WinTV PVR unit. That is a hardware MPEG-2 encoder type capture card.

This capture card does not recognize any copy protection. In short it will copy anything.

So I hooked my Philips DVP-5140 up to it and captured a segment from a PAL DVD Video.

So the PAL DVD was played on the Philips DVP-5140 which converted the output to standard 29.970fps NTSC and I then captured that with my capture card using a CBR video bitrate of 8000kbps with MP2 audio (which I then converted to AC-3 audio for compatibility).

So in short this capture is as close to the real thing as you can get.

I suggest you download it and since it is a compliant NTSC DVD spec MPEG file I suggest you burn it to a DVD-R or DVD-RW using your choice of authoring software and burner application.

It is important that you watch it on your TV to check the quality ... don't rely on how it looks on your computer monitor.

Please note that the file is only 90MB and some DVD players will not play a DVD-R or DVD-RW that doesn't have at least 1GB of data on it.

Here is the download link to the file:
http://rapidshare.com/files/7395720/PAL2NTSC.mpg


Now the Philips DVP-5140 doesn't have S-Video (I had to use the composite out) but this gives you an idea of the quality you can expect from a current model DVD player using a MediaTek chipset. The Pioneer DV-393S should look the same if using the composite out only you get S-Video out with it as well.

From what you have said it sounds like you will be best served by the Pioneer DV-393S since you require S-Video ... otherwise I would tell you to get the Philips DVP-5140 and be done with it.

However since you want the Pioneer the question then becomes ... do you buy one that is pre-modified to be REGION FREE or just buy a normal REGION ONE USA model?

Personally I think it is silly to not buy it pre-modified to be REGION FREE. Why? You will run into PAL DVD Videos that are region coded to a region that a REGION ONE DVD player will bark at. Of course you could RIP those DVD Videos and make a DVD-R back-up that is now REGION FREE but let's face it ... most DVD Videos are Dual Layer so that means you either have to get into Dual Layer burning (which can be tricky) or compress to a single layer DVD disc. It just makes things SO much more convenient when you can just put the original in the DVD player and NOT have to worry about the region. This applies to PAL and NTSC ... for example pretty much ALL Japanese DVD Videos are coded REGION TWO even though they are NTSC. Hong Kong DVD Videos are NTSC but REGION THREE, etc.

Last but not least there is the issue of weather or not a standard USA model Pioneer DV-393S can do PAL to NTSC. I do not know for sure BUT I would expect that it does ... as long as the DVD is REGION FREE of course. As for Pioneer telling you otherwise ... of course they would tell you otherwise even if not true. Think of their position and protecting the company and brand name etc. The powers that be do not like us to have such things so easily. It is rather amazing that Philips gets away with it (i.e., a REGION ONE DVD player that is so easily hacked so as to be REGION FREE with PAL to NTSC on top of it).

Oh and one more thing. The price that 220-electronics.com is offering on their pre-modified Pioneer DV-393S is not that much more than what the REGION ONE model will cost based on a quick look at pricegrabber.com so again I don't think it is worth saving a few bucks over.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I see that one person so far has downloaded the sample video I made.

Comments?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Avory]

John, I was so busy burying myself in various warrens pursuing angles that you've suggested that I didn't take the courtesy to thank you for your very helpful advice and guidance. I must admit that ignorance can be bliss, and being informed can make one more picky (as well as irritable) with the choices (or lack thereof) presented. (I guess that's why I still am somewhat stubborn on the home entertainment front; I continue to maintain a large vinyl collection and two pristene Sony SL-HF 1000 Betamaxes...I'm somewhat cautious embracing new technology as the promise doesn't always make life easier or better. It sure as heck doesn't make life simpler.)

I have decided on a series of options, each one that will rule itself out if they become too expensive. At one end I've identified an inexpensive, but used, JVC model that quite clearly says in its manual (as most JVC's seem to do) that they convert PAL discs to NTSC. Of course, as you have clearly illustrated, the results of this conversion often leave something to be desired, but I can probably live with your demonstration (thank you very much for the time you put into this.) At the other end of the spectrum is the format flexibility and promise (and cost) of the region-free Pioneer for $139 from International. In between are several other options that I will reject if the bidding or price are too high. Wish me luck, and thank you again for being such a service to those of us in a continuing quandary.

[FulciLives]

The Pioneer DV-393S and the Pioneer DV-490S will both have the same quality when using composite, S-Video or component. The DV-490S will only have an edge over the DV-393S if you have a TV that can take advantage of the HDMI up-conversion output capabilities of the DV-490S.

As I recall you said you wanted something with S-Video output so I assume that is the best quality connector on your TV (i.e., no component nor HDMI).

In that case you might as well just buy the Pioneer DV-393S which can be bought ... pre-modified to be region free and do PAL to NTSC ... for only $89 US Dollars + shipping from 220-electronics.com

If you want to buy a DVD player now that has HDMI up-conversion because you think you may be buying a TV soon that would take advantage of it then bite the bullet and get the Oppo Digital DV-981HD.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman