buying capture card - a little confused

[greenbag]

Currently waiting to dub vhs to dvd - not sure what kind of memory needed on the card itself.... 256 or 512? Is ATI AIW 256 good enough for high quality dub, or should I spend more for the 512?

system:

p4 774, 3.0g
asus p5ld2
2 sticks ddr2 @ 1g = 2g
maxtor 80g ide (at the moment - upgrading to 300g sata in couple of weeks)

Any input from experience appreciated.

cheers.

[Barnabas]

Get a TBC (time base corrector) first, as capping VHS has sync issues much of the time without a TBC.

[hunter99]

Get a Hauppauge PVR250 or 350.

No MacroVision problems, and
you can keep the Closed Captions if you wish.

Been running my setup past few months,
about 40 movies with no sync problems,
no problems of any kind. They look as good to me
on my 25in. CRT and 32in. LCD as the origs.
In some cases better.

[jman98]

I also have the Hauppauge PVR-350 and it is the best capture card I have ever owned, although I have to say I have never used it for VHS capturing.

Don't worry about the video memory on any card. That is meaningless for video captures. I don't recommend ATI cards for a variety of reasons. Unless you must capture to AVI first and then convert, there is no real need for an ATI card. Honestly, capturing MPEG-2 video at very high bit rates and re-encoding down with something like CCE or TMPGenc to a lower bit is not inferior to AVI to MPEG-2 converting. Well, at least 99% of the people couldn't tell the difference if done correctly and most of the people on the forum who swear there is a difference would probably fail a double blind test to see if they could REALLY tell a difference.

ATI cards sometimes (but not in most cases) have weird audio sync issues because they do software encoding on the fly. It has to do with some audio card issues and there isn't a good way to fix it. Most people don't have any issues with their ATI cards, but if you are one of the unlucky few who does, probably nothing you do will ever fix the problem or you'll have to spend much much more money in replacing equipment on the PC to fix it then to have just bought a Hauppauge to begin with. I have honestly known of people who spent $500 or more on new components for a PC to make a stupid ATI card do its job correctly when the last time I checked, you could the PVR-350 for about $120. Does that really make sense to spend $500 for new components instead of just buying a new capture card for $120? Yet you'd be surprised at how many guys do this.

[thecoalman]

Currently waiting to dub vhs to dvd - not sure what kind of memory needed on the card itself.... 256 or 512? Is ATI AIW 256 good enough for high quality dub, or should I spend more for the 512?
.

Those are video cards, any capture ability is extra. Most of the price is for the 3-D graphics part which except for a few applications that utilize it is pretty much useless for video. The AIW is in a class of it's own and will provide ery good captures if you can get it to work right.

There's two basic routes you can take, MPEG capture or AVI. Both have their pros and cons. MPEG capture is done through hardware, it can be done with software but is not recommended. It's a very fast method as your video is already DVD compliant. the downside is that it's not very editor friendly. If you want to experiment, maybe get a little creative a lightly compressed AVI is more suitable. The downside is the entire video has to be converted to MPEG for final output. An additional step but with a decent system it doesn't take that long.

As far as devices there are many. My reccomendations:

The "Kill two Birds with one stone route"
MPEG capture - Simply get a DVD recorder, record to disc. Rip the disc to your HD for further editing and disc authoring.
AVI Capture- Digital Video Camera w/passthu, you hook your analog device to a digital cam which in turn converts the analog signal to digital which can then be sent over firewire to your computer. If you have a digital cam you may want to look to see if it has this feature.

Dedicated Hardware
MPEG capture - Hauppage 250, this is a PCI card that encodes directly to MPEG. I don't have one but it comes highly recommended by otheres on this forum.
AVI Capture - ADVC 110, this is similar to using a digital camera except it doesn't have a lense. It also has a few more features for capture than a digital camera....

[greenbag]

Cool.... clears it up 'a bit' (:

Wasn't sure if cards w/ 512mb were mainly for gaming, or if the xtra memory would benefit for capture as well. Not really a gamer, so don't want what I don't need.

Been reading some 'how2s' from this site (very interesting I might add), and intend to capture to avi first for editing purposes - read straight to mpeg limits post-filtering. My pet project is Woodstock '99 (60 hrs). Tapes only viewed @ 10 times, but still 7 yrs old - so a little clean-up is needed. (and I just read there's a 'logo remover' that will take out the little bird sitting on the guitar neck - that runs the entire show. If it removes the 'ppv messages' - even better).

Originally captured to Sony -R disks w/ a Pioneer vhs-dvd dubber. Absolute crap!! Jitters everywhere! Wasn't the vhs - I watched every minute of the dub. Re-dubbed a second time and had planned on splicing back and forth where needed - way too many jitters to deal with. Took the machine back before the 2 week return date (;

One reason I was interested in the AIW, is it 'supposedly' has great 'video soap' software. But also reading there's freeware just as good. And it has option for either avi or mpg capturing.

So, guess I'm looking for card w/ avi capturing w/ 256mbs. jman98 said "Don't worry about the video memory on any card. That is meaningless for video captures." So maybe a 128mb?

Thanx for the imputs - greatly appreciated.

[yoda313]

and I just read there's a 'logo remover' that will take out the little bird sitting on the guitar neck - that runs the entire show. If it removes the 'ppv messages' - even better).

Don't get your hopes up. And it will add TONS of time to your processing. It tends leave a watery aftermark on your video. And if its a moving logo it tends to look even worse.

You're better off in the long run just leaving the logo intact. You have to reprocess it to get rid of the logo and its best to not fool around with video too much - each time there is a quality loss.

You can experiment yourself but don't lose your originals and don't expect miracles. JUST FYI

[greenbag]

[/quote]

Don't get your hopes up. And it will add TONS of time to your processing. It tends leave a watery aftermark on your video. And if its a moving logo it tends to look even worse.
quote]

Thanx yoda.... wasn't too sure how it worked. I know the logo is transparent, so I figured the program just filled pixels with the colours of whatever image was moving behind the image. .. I have a lot more reading to do.

cheers (:

[thecoalman]

I know the logo is transparent, so I figured the program just filled pixels with the colours of whatever image was moving behind the image. .. I have a lot more reading to do.

If it's a transparent image you'll have much more luck with it. The closer the logo is to the original the better it will work. The trouble arises where they are large solid colors...animated you might as well forget it.

[greenbag]

If it's a transparent image you'll have much more luck with it. The closer the logo is to the original the better it will work. The trouble arises where they are large solid colors...animated you might as well forget it.

Cool... I know that 'what I want', and what's 'reality' are usually 2 different things - but have the patience to give it a try (:

When you say animated - would that include scrolling text (this is a ppv... any rebroadcast.....)? It's also transparent.

For most of the woodstock sets, I can splice the majority of these messages (1-2 an hr), with the 'overnight replays'. But, unfortunately, some sets were only shown once (live). .. It's not critical, but would be nice if possible.

ps:
Splicing with 'ulead 10.0' is a breeze. Pinpoint accuracy (:

cheers.

[greenbag]

Bought card on Saturday:

ATI AIW 2006 256mb PCIE (x1300) (MME 9.10)
using s-video with audio jacks (input and output)

- doesn't record in 'native' format
(says it's recording, but no file created)

- internal tuner doesn't pull in ALL channels consistantly
(vcr brings in 6 more than card, and card drops some channels when re-searching)

- internal tuner has 'blotchy' quality (macroblocks)

- s-video input from vcr tuner better, but still a bit blotchy - and jerky

- audio level too low, even though system volume maximum
(tv needs to be turned WAY up)


P4 / 3gig single core CPU, with 2gig DDR2 ram running at 15-20%. I've tried enabling and disabling 'hyperthreading' in bios - no difference. Tried Asus's 'AI overclocking', and 'manual' settings (left at default) - same results.

The only thing that's any good, is dvd playback. Where my nvidea MX4000 128mb would be 'slightly' jittery, the 256mb ati is completely fluid.

Unless it's the catalyst version (which I could downgrade), or some 'other' settings, I don't see any promise for this card. I'm about to return the card and get a hauppauge instead, as earlier suggested - should've listened. Do they come in PCIE?

Glad I didn't send away for the remote yet.

BLAH!

[greenbag]

I may have jumped the gun on diss'n this card.

I was at my buddy's last night, and he has the ati aiw 128mb, in a P4/2gig with 128mb DDR, running XP pro sp2 (hack). His looks perfect. I was ticked off to say the least. - Went home and did some more troubleshooting.

I found that the blotchyness is from bad cable. We're splitting 1 input into 4 outputs (tv living room, tv 1 bedroom, tv and now pc in another bedroom). I custom lengthed some RG6 (sat cable), and it improved some. Maybe a cable booster is needed in this situation. We plan on going digital cable, but not 'til after xmas.

Found that the catalyst in the installation cd, was from 2004 - even though the card says 'AIW 2006'. Saw that ati has 9.15 for download (40mb). Will try that tonight. Hopefully that will fix things. Read that older versions of DirectX can cause problems as well.

I also came across something in the manual I overlooked the first time - the card requires at least Windows XP sp2. I'm still at sp1. I also read in my mobo's manual, that the hyperthreading requires sp2 as well. That could be a big factor. .. Not online at home, so will have to bring pc to my buddy's to update. Microsoft will send the update disk, but it takes 4-6 weeks. And costs $7 shipping.

Will also look for mobo updates from asus.

Hopefully, with all the proper updates, my 256mb will run as smooth as my bud's 128mb. Fingers crossed.

[Nelson37]

Some tips for you.

Avoid the on-board tuner. Essentially useless for digital cable, anyway, also it introduces additional distortion and/or signal degradation.

What you want is S-video straight from the cable box to the tuner. You want the CLEANEST signal you can get. Digital cable or satellite is best. While these are occassionaly bitrate-starved before they get to you (visible blocks in original broadcast) they are almost completely devoid of the "snow" you get on analog transmissions.

MMC Version and driver updates - This will apparently be the first time you have done this. Be prepared for lots of frustration and re-installs. Currently recommended version is 9.03, anything over 9.08 I have seen overwhelmingly negative reports. They just don't seem to work.

Rage3d.com has some very complete instructions for steps to remove old versions, this is extremely important. Getting a new Catalyst and MMC install to work is sometimes a matter of re-booting, or not, at particular points in the install and this is a variable. Completely and thoroughly removing all remnants of other versions is the important part.

As for evaluating the card, your experience is not at all unique. Note that if you had not seen your buddy's installation you would have been convinced your card was crap, when really the issue may well be a weak signal. I have used an inexpensive signal booster on analog cable with significant improvements.

On the VCR - get the card and software THOROUGHLY dialed-in and working with your cable signal before attempting VCR capture. Tapes have many issues that must be dealt with seperately, if you think the weak signal caused issues wait till you attempt to capture a less-than-pristine VCR tape. You will need either a full TBC or at a minimum something like a Sima Copy Master.

[Z-C]

Just my humble opinion:

A year and half ago, I was doing a massive research on which capture card I should get. The intention was also(and still is) converting VHS/hi8 to DVD.

After reading quite a bit reviews and opinions, it seemed that for my needs the best would be the Canopus ADVC 110. I was a bit worried because it was overpriced, but it seemed like a solution that will spare me the headache other capture cards give.

Only recently I got the time to start and work with it. So far(and hope it keeps up this way), and thanks to the help of videohelp's forum members, I'm getting incredible results! Needless to say that the capturing works smoothly - no dropped frames or audio sync issues(so far, but shouldn't be any either). The quality of the captures looks great to me. And after using a noise reduction filter, I really do feel that I'm getting miracles done.

Good luck with your work!

[greenbag]

thanx Nelson37 and Z-C.

Found new bios, i945P chipset driver, and audio driver for my mobo - lots better. Smoother and louder. And I also noticed the volume control on the mmc dashboard that I didn't see before. Had installed mmc 9.14 - buggy. Go to pause in pvr, all it does is mute - picture keeps rolling. Will search for 9.03. - Also will be getting xp sp2 update this weekend.

As for recording, it's pretty good - at least as my non-experience goes. Avi played back in mmc or windows media player syncs out as it goes along. But strangely, same avi converted to mpeg-2 in premiere elements will play fine in mmc and media player - no audio issues. Not sure if it's just system resources, or mmc and media player just having problems with the format. Thinking my bios needs tweeking. First p4 I've owned, and bios is 'jumperless', so set at default. I'm used to p2, where cpu and ram have jumpers for the clock. May bring to a shop if I can't find info I need. As long as it works the way it should, I won't mind paying. - But I'd like to try and learn myself first.

Thanx again for your inputs - greatly appreciated.

cheers.