Confused about my video capture card needs

[Yogensha]

Hi... noob here with a few questions.

I want to capture directly from console systems to my computer. There are a lot of video capture cards out there, but I really have no idea what I need for my purposes. Please advise me on which I should purchase.

My primary goal is to be able to capture from Playstation2 at 60 frames per second / 800x600 resolution (I think a few ps2 games use that resolution, but most are 640x480), without any loss to video quality. The most important thing to me is, I want to make sure the original quality is preserved (for use in a DVD production, I don't plan on lowering the video quality). I want it to look to look the same as if they were playing the game themself. It's essential that the video be captured at the full 60FPS, without any dropped frames, because I'd like to use the video capture for some game testing purposes as well.

Additionally, although there are no games on next-gen systems I want to record from, in the future I'm sure there will be. So HD compatability is a must. If possible I'd like to preserve the original video quality / keep a perfect framerate here as well, but depending on the exact requirements I might compromise on this. The specs for the computer I'll be recording with (Not sure if it matters) will be something like this OS: Windows XP Pro (SP2) 3.0 GHZ dual core processor 3GB ram unknown video card (Current one is an older geforce, planning to upgrade it anyways so advise me if this matters at all (I think it's irrelevent but who knows)), random 7200 RPM hard drives (different types).

Aside from a quality capture card, I've heard that the write speed of your hard drive is very important. If there's any particular one I should pick up and use as the dedicated capture HDD, please let me know. Also, if I need anything seperate for the audio recording please list it as well. I'm not in any kind of rush to get this set up, so budget isn't an issue. If it costs too much I'll just wait until I have enough to buy it. My main concern is maintaining the quality of the video recording. Thanks in advance

Yogensha

[jagabo]

The PS2 only outputs SD resolution so you'll be capturing 720x480 29.97 fps interlaced NTSC, or 720x576 25 fps interlaced PAL.

About the only devices that will capture HD from newer consoles are the Hauppauge HD PVR (component input, h.264/AC3/AAC MPEG transport stream output) and the BlackMagic Intensity (HDMI input, software MJPEG compression) or Intensity Pro (HDMI, component, s-video inputs, software MJPEG compression). I doubt the HDMI outputs will be unencrypted so you'll probably need the Pro.

The Intensity Pro is likely what you want to get.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

[edDV]

Review these threads re: BM Intensity
It doesn't hardware compress so you need an appropriate RAID or fast CPU for software MJPEG compress. Resolutions are video (i.e 720x480i/p, 720p, 1080i).
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic317690.html
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic315460.html

[Yogensha]

The PS2 only outputs SD resolution so you'll be capturing 720x480 29.97 fps interlaced NTSC, or 720x576 25 fps interlaced PAL.

Ordinarily yes... but I've heard that for games that support "Progressive Mode" (hold triangle and X while the game starts), enabling it will cause the PS2 to output at 60FPS. Can you confirm whether this is true or not?

[Yogensha]

Also concerning the Intensity Pro, I stumbled accross this poor fool while I was googling the card:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/ele/901077021.html

Someone that's selling their card because they found Sony PS3 has copy protection.
From the threads linked earlier about the Intensity Pro, I'm guessing people were able to record from XBOX360 just fine... but PS3 is something I want to be able to record from as well.

Because the Intensity Pro also has component support, I'm guessing I could record from PS3 using that connection... but won't that result in a loss of quality (compared to using HDMI)?
I did some research on the HDMI standard in general, and I'm guessing most cards with HDMI support will have this problem. Is there one on the market currently that can bypass copy protection?

[jagabo]

Yes, recording component will give you less quality than a full digital HDMI recording would. But I'm not aware of any HDMI recording device that will record HDCP encrypted material.

There is/was a rumored DVI-to-DIV HDCP stripper from Spatz-tech but I've never heard of anyone who has seen or used one.

[vhelp]

It's been a while since I last stopped by on these forums, but..

Excuse me for adding my two cents worth here, but don't you know that you'll be capturing an already "processed" video over HDMI ?

All these HD cards, LCD screens, and HDTV sets have built-in hardware assisted noise reduction and upsampling, including the multi ranges of anti-lias filters (for smothing edges etc) and de-blocking (for reducing the various mpeg errors..macroblocks and pixelations) processing.

You would be capturing the finished processing of the original transport streams that these devices receive.

If you want to the highest quality, then you will want an HDTV tuner capture card, which would give you the RAW feed for preserving or processing down to SD dvd, etc.

I don't know, but it seems to me there is misconception floating around here with capture capabilities over HDMI and Component video from HDTV sources with the idea of obtaining highest quality, when you are not, actually. Add to that the amount of resources (HDD space) and throughput (speed vs. frame loss etc) that is needed vs. your standard 720x480 SD type capture setup.

So, unless I'm missing something, that's the way I see it

-vhelp 4915

[jagabo]

An HD Tuner card won't be of any use capturing from a PS3 or XBox 360.

[vhelp]

Ahh, yes.. the exception.

-vhelp 4916

[jagabo]

Actually, in the USA it's pretty much the rule. The only sources from which you can directly get the transport stream is over-the-air broadcast TV and cable clear QAM -- which is pretty much limited to the same stations you can get OTA.

[p3ck5]

hey there, im also confused about my capture card needs....the following are the features i am looking for in a capture card:

1. i am looking for a capture card that allowes me to play in hd as well as record in hd

2. i am looking for a capture card that is vista compatible

3. lastly and the most complicated: i need a capture card that doesnt need an ethernet cable, it has to be wireless internet

i was looking at the HAVA HD PLATINUM, however when i looked at the close details of that one, i saw that u have to use an EHTERNET CABLE, the problem lies there, i play in my bedroom which is on the opposite side of the my house than my router and an ethernet cable would be impossible to set up....any possible help is much appreciated!

[jagabo]

If I understand correctly, the Hava HD Platinum reduces HD sources to SD for streaming and recording.

http://www.myhava.com/product_hava_platinum_hd.html
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000UJE1O2/

[Yogensha]

lol... it looks like vhelp didn't even read the original post. It's probably hard to help people like that . . .

[edDV]

The PS2 only outputs SD resolution so you'll be capturing 720x480 29.97 fps interlaced NTSC, or 720x576 25 fps interlaced PAL.

Ordinarily yes... but I've heard that for games that support "Progressive Mode" (hold triangle and X while the game starts), enabling it will cause the PS2 to output at 60FPS. Can you confirm whether this is true or not?

Have you been able to confirm if this is true? 60 frame/sec would require a component output. I've never heard of a PS2 with 480p component out.

[jagabo]

I've read posts around the net that have claimed 480p60 output from the PS2 via component cables -- but none from what I would consider a definitive source. Component cables are available for the PS2.

http://www.amazon.com/PLAYSTATION-PS2-COMPONENT-VIDEO-CABLE-HDTV/dp/B000SJ61BK/

[Yogensha]

I haven't had any confirmation about it, but here's something that might be a clue. You can only activate "Progressive Mode" if you are connected via component cables. If you try it with composite, you'll get a black screen and then it will revert to default mode in 15 seconds and ask you again if you wish to try activating progressive mode. If you want to check it out yourself, the way to turn it on for most games (that support it) is by holding triangle and X buttons while you turn on the game. Not all games support Progressive Mode so make sure you find one that does... like any Guilty Gear XX game.

[neomaine]

Yogensha,

Both the PS2 and original XBOX have a component output option that allow for playing (supported) games at 480P (a few 720P), and DVDs in their (usually) native 480P.

Though you state that your capture needs are 800x600, this is not needed with your desired end result format being DVD. You should capture at DVD's native MPEG2 720x480 at 60fps to get the desired 480P. With any component capable capture card you should be able to do this just fine with your system specs. Capture to a single drive with plenty of contiguous space, ie. defragged. Optimum setup:

Drive 1: OS drive (Programs, swap...)
Drive 2: Capture Drive (Capture to drive...)
Drive 3: Output Drive (Authoring to drive...)

(The point is to not have your drive thrash trying to read and write to the same drive. Check the first sticky in the capturing forum for some basic tried and true capturing setups)

One piece that you're missing is the bitrate that you'll be capturing at. The resolution you list off means nothing to quality unless you have the bitrate to support it. You should also make sure to consider your audio needs. Again, capture in the native 48k/stereo.

Though capturing in the native MPEG2 is lossy, it'll save you a ton of time in postprocessing. You could try to capture in a lossless format but in my opinion you would gain little for the amount of time you would need to put in.

[jagabo]

I haven't had any confirmation about it, but here's something that might be a clue. You can only activate "Progressive Mode" if you are connected via component cables.

Of course. There are no devices that can display progressive over composite or s-video.

The question is whether the progressive output via component is 30 or 60 frames per second. And, even if it is 60 frames per second, can the games produce 60 different frames per second. Or at least something over 30.

[Yogensha]

In the case of the Guilty Gear series for PS2, it runs internally at 60FPS like most modern fighting games. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it will animate at 60FPS, but considering they went out of their way to add this feature... I think that's the case. I'm no expert though so we're still not any closer I guess.

[edDV]

Most component capture cards will only do 480i @29.97 (576i @25fps for PAL).

480p @59.94 fps requires something like a BlackMagic Intensity Pro or AJA Xena.
http://www.aja.com/pdf/XENA_Line.pdf