Sync to seperate videos

[krg765]

Hi, I work for a Dallas area police department. I am working on an anti-drug/crime/violence show for middle school kids. I am going to project 2 seperate but related videos to 2 screens. These 2 videos need to stay synced. Right now, the best method I have is hitting play on 2 dvd players at the same time, but this is obviously going to be a nightmare. I know there has to be some software or some way to lock the timecodes together, or something out there that I'm missing. If you have any idea on how I could lock 2 videos together and output them to 2 seperate projectors, please give me a clue. Our 1st show is 10-17 and I'm starting to get a little nervous.

Thanks for any advice

-Kyle

[gadgetguy]

An interesting challenge. I have an idea, but I don't know how practical it is for you.
Edit the two videos into a single double wide video (I would use AviSynth StackHorizontal). Then using two PCI video cards connect the two projectors. Set up Windows to see the two projectors as one doublewide screen then play the movie full screen. One should show on one screen, and the other on the other. The problem would be the audio. Assuming the audio on each is stereo, you could convert the stereo track to a mono track for each, then place the audio for the first video on the left channel and the audio for the second on the right channel. That would allow you to split the audio out to follow the corresponding video.

Note: I have never tried this, it's just a thought that should work.

[Scorpion King]

Instead of 2 dvd players running 2 projectors why not a laptop and a couple Wireless Projector Adapter. Seems cool to me. Heres a link I stumbled on with some info about doing that.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/WiJet-Video.htm

Good luck

[krg765]

Thanks for the quick reply! That is a great idea. I was kicking pretty much the same idea around in my head also. I have been doing some research and found Watchout on the Dataton website. This would enable me to actually alter the show live rather than having a fixed video. I don't know how much that costs though and am not sure it would be in the budget. I think at the very least, I'm going to go with your idea, as that would at least guarentee synced video.

Thanks again for the help!

-Kyle

[BJ_M]

pioneer DVD-V8000 players are designed to play in sync exactly ..

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310070065_315329303,00.html

they can be run from simple serial commands from a lap top (just split the serial cable (one way only) to the players - or you cn buy inexpensive control devices (down to a simple one button approach).


a cheaper solution which ive also done, is to use a IR remote control to run two of the same dvd players in tandem.

[BJ_M]

btw- i am a Dataton programmer also -- it is a expensive solution but would work ..... but it is a expensive solution for your needs ...

[krg765]

Would you mind giving me a clue as to roughly how expensive? I know I'd need three dongles, right?

[BJ_M]

you would only need two lic ... figure on 5000$

[krg765]

Yeah, I was figuring something around that neighborhood, but fearing something worse. I doubt they're going to let me do that, but you never know. I've been doing the double dvd player with the same remote trick for a little while now. It's about 90% reliable, I just know that 10% is going to hit me at one or some of the performances. The DVD-V8000 would be a great option as well, and I am reading up on that. I really like the flexibility that the Dataton Watchout would provide.

Thanks again for all the help.

-Kyle

[BJ_M]

Dataton Watchout is not for the faint of heart ... it is more for performance shows ... but very effective on the right hardware and with a really good network running ... you need dedicated hardware for HD playback - though for low res. stuff you can get away with much less ... not a system i would consider portable and quick set up ..

the pioneer units (or the older 8400 models) are rock solid reliable .. not some converted consumer machine. they always work , often 24/7 for months at a time ...

there is another option -- well more than several ...

i also use special codecs and playback software to play back films in 3D off a single PC (in very high res - 2k - 4k res.) ... you can use the same set up to play back two completely different films perfectly in sync (since they are in the same file - stacked or side by side) .. the software splits the image - and the codec used is specially developed for this application. figure on about 10 grand for software plus 3 grand for hardware ..


or the BEST multi setup would be quvis servers (if you need film quality) ... www.quvis.com

again figure on 10 - 20 grand (and (way) up) depending on needs ...

[Steve Stepoway]

Here's another approach; something I've been looking at for a project of my own. I've not actually done this yet, but I think it will work. Under Linux, there's a piece of SW called Jack. It's an audio routing toolkit; kind of a SW plugboard for routing audio info between various apps. It can also route MIDI (thus control) info as well. There's a network version of it called NetJack that can route among multiple machines on a network. There's also a video player called xjadeo that can be controlled by MIDI signals. The way you'd set this up is to have the audio drive everything. The audio app plays the soundtrack, and sends MIDI control signals through Jack (or NetJack, if we are talking about multiple machines) to 2 copies of xjadeo (probably running on 2 machines), with each instance of xjadeo playing one of the video files. And the SW is free (as in freedom).

I'm pretty sure this will work, but as I said, I haven't actually done it yet.

Steve

[BJ_M]

well yes , as i said there are multiple approaches...

but IMO, you are looking at way to complex a setup if all you want is reliable and simple operation...

in that case - there is no simpler and trouble free approach than using already tried and true proven setups.



I would have two Pioneer DVD-V8000 mounted in a flight case with a technovision or alcorn mcbride or leightronics controller - along with a keypad hardwired to the controller (or mounted on a rack panel on the front).

I would use for video projectors two Projectiondesign F3 XGA projectors which are designed (and warrantied) for industrial 24/7 operation and have up to a 8000 hour bulb life.

and finally two self powered speakers like the Galaxy Powered Hotspots ..

[krg765]

The 2 dvd player approach seems to be working ok. I've pretty much gotten the blessing from the powers that be to get the dataton software (or whatever I need within the same rough price range). Let me explain the layout of the show and see if any of you guys think that it would work with Watchout.

There are 2 videos that play on 2 seperate screens. There is a stage in the middle for actors. Each video is made of several sequences that make up a story. The sequences are seperated by short video textures. The actors have lines that correspond with the onscreen action as it occurrs as well as lines in between sequences while a video texture is on screen. As it is now, the actors must time themselves to the DVD's and there is little to no room for error. Once the show is started, there's pretty much no stopping it.

If I understand Watchout correctly, I could manually start each sequence whenever I wanted, enabling me to tailor the video to the actors, rather than forcing the actors to time themselves to the video. I would be able to alter the show on the fly creating what will probably be a much tighter production.

Am I thinking about this correctly? Is this what Watchout is designed to do? I pretty much have 1 week to figure this out, get the equipment, learn to use it, and design the show around it. Cutting it a little close...

Thanks again

-Kyle

[BJ_M]

"alter the show on the fly"

hardly -- it is not timecode based - just slide clips on a track (and a bunch of other things) and then they have to download the altered show to the playback machines .. one for each projector ..

the clips have to be exactly the right formats to play. though watchout will resize on the fly very well .. but everything has to be encoded properly - preferably in a QT format ....

you can switch from one playlist/show to another really fast though .

not a real time system - contrary to what you may understand .. you will have no real preview also (besides having to compile the shows to the play machines) until you see it on the big screen ...



i dont think you understand how the pioneer dvd players work - they are frame accurate - with a controller , you can jump to any scene almost instantly .... you can do this also with some 360 systems and alcorn mcbride video players ...

in fact you might want to really look at 360's offering based on the show type you are describing ... all you need is their image server 2000 and a controller panel ...

http://www.360systems.com/imageserver2000.html

[krg765]

Thanks for all the help and advice. Looks like I'm going to go with the 2 DVD players and same remote for this year. I actually may have the budget to get more advanced, but I don't think I have the time to implement it for this year. I'm definitely going to follow this advice for next year and upgrade this system.

Thanks again!

-Kyle

[gadgetguy]

@BJ_M
When you say they are frame accurate, I assume that means the two players stay in sync frame for frame, but can you set the two videos for different frames to stay in sync? For example, if I want video 1 to start on frame 50 and to be in sync video 2 needs to start on frame 65. Can I preset that offset and keep them in sync from there?

[BJ_M]

yes you can - the pioneers can genlock to each other and stay in sync ..

only dvd players that can do this (well), marantz pro also has some industrial players - but dont sync as well or communicate as well via rs232 ,,,

the pioneers use the same commands pretty well as the pioneer industrial laser disk players (like the 8000) and even have the same 15 pin connectors (as well as normal serial connectors).

[BJ_M]

in fact in some cases - 3 to 6 of these units are used for multichannel audio playback