Really need advise on DVD-RWs

[StuR]

Hi sorry if this post sounds like 'what dvd rw should I get' as I now that's not encouraged.

I'm new to this forum and have joined to try and find some advice about DVDRW's.
I've been on the look out for a DVD recorder for years now, waiting for the price to go down and quality to go up.

I've read the reviews but would still like an overview from any one out there in the know.

I'm actually looking for a unit that can be set up as a stand alone VCR to DVD copier. I've 500+ video's (mainly art and design off TV) that need to be put onto DVD. As many of the video's have developed that grubby mould on the spooles I need a seperate VCR so I can replace it if it's damaged by the old video's.

So I think I would like.
- price near to £100 or less
- reasonably easy, 'reliable' electronics
- DVD + and -
- possibility to edit chapters, to pick out short programs, like 3min animations.
- would like 'RAM' and/or 'RW VR mode' for edit functions.
- RGB scart in/out


RW'S I'M CONSIDERING

Lite-On LVW-5006 £80
PRO's
- RW +/-
- unique again 'Macrovision Hack' to allow all video's to be copied.
- RGB in/out
- possibilty to have 4yr warranty (just before 1st yr runs out pay £20 to extend further 3yrs at Currys)
- unique feature of CD writing for copying LP's and tapes without using computer.

CON's
- going by some reviews a lack of reliability
- lack of editing, can't even change thumbnail pic's only names, and basic chapter deleting
- No RW- VR mode
- No RAM

Panasonic DMR-ES10-EB £130
PRO's
- hopefully panasonic reliabily
- R -/+, RAM, RW-
- editting on RAM
- Digital Noise Reduction (which I think is a feature that improves source picture i.e. old video)
CON's
- no RGB scart in
- no RW +
- extra cost but not harddrive or freeview

*Panasonic ES20 found reduced to £140 (with freeview, rgb in/out and 500line 4hr)

LG DR175 £130
PRO's
- RW+/-
- RW- VR mode with good edit features
- RGB in/out
- Image Optimising to improve poor source
CON's
_ no RAM


Philips DVDR3360 £130
PRO's
- RW+/-
- may have RW- VR
- available at Sainsbury + Tesco (clubcard points), easier to return if faulty than Currys (repair in 21 days rubbish)
- RGB in/out
CON's
- looks like limited editing
- no 3hr record 1/2/4/6 only
- not sure about the quality for price

Macrovision Problems?
One last think I only have the odd few protected video's so macrovision isn't really an issue but I have read that DVDRW can wrongly read the flicker and wobble when a old recording starts as Macrovision protection and stop the recording. This is a major reason for considering the Lite-On 5006 as I think the only other way round this would be to buy an image stabiliser box or special scart leads. Does anyone have experiance of problem video's and how they solved it please.

Basically If I can get the video's on disc I can make some room. Ican recopy and edit at another date copy to other formats (+-ram) on my laptop drive so I don't know really if I should be as concerned about some features as I am.
So knowing the pupose of the drive could someone tell me what my priorities should be in choosing.
Cheers sorry about the length of post!

[SingSing]

Use DVD+R/W.

DVD+R/W cost less, and has less conflict with applications on PCs.

[bendixG15]

Use DVD-R/W

Cost is not an issue, has less conflict on DVD players.

[Shocker Milwaukee]

DVD+RW has been much more reliable for me.

[samijubal]

I've been using Verbatim -RWs every day for 9 months, no problems and no PC conflicts.

[louv68]

I have had zero conflicts with either +RW or -RW's using 4X Memorex +RW and 1X Memorex -RW (yes I have some old stock left over.)

Where I live, sale prices are always the same for both formats.

When burning +RW, bitset them to DVD-ROM Before you commit to either, ensure your players are compatible. I have two players that will only play one or the other, but not both, so I'm covered.

[usually_quiet]

I have a Panasonic DMR-ES10. I haven't tried the other recorders mentioned.

Pros
I have been pleased with the features, ease of use, and playback quality overall. I especially appreciate the Flexible Recording mode when recording movies that run some odd minutes beyond the usual 2 hours. There are DVD recorders made by other manufacturers that produce recordings which are reportedly superior in quality, especially when dubbing VHS tapes, (JVC, Pioneer, and Toshiba are often praised) but for my purposes, the quality of recordings has been fine.

Cons:
This model seems to have something of a problem with the power supply going bad after a little over a year of normal use. (I had mine repaired recently because of a dead power supply, and from what I've read here, the same part is likely to go bad again, given the capacitors used )

The DMR-ES10 can record to DVD-RW but not DVD+RW although it can play finalized DVD+RW.

Regarding RAM discs:
Over time I have used RAM discs less and less and DVD-RW more and more. If you need to record SAP narration, or routinely want to watch something while it’s still recording then I guess you have a real need for RAM discs. There are other special features related to recording and editing (using the recorder) that require RAM discs, but I haven’t tried them, I’m just going on what the manual says. I do any editing, chapter creation, etc. on my PC, which I believe gives better results. If you want to use a PC to edit recordings on a RAM disc, you need a DVD drive capable of reading RAM discs, and your choices in that area are few.

[samijubal]

There are actually quite a few PC burners that read RAM, along with DVD-ROM drives. My cheapie new PC had an LG DVD-ROM that does RAM.

[CrayonEater]

Lots of drives read RAM, and many more can acquire that capability with the proper firmware crossflash from rpc1.org. However, why one would WANT to relegate themselves to DVD-RAM is another matter.

I have an older Panasonic, the DMR-E50. As far as electronics go, it's the biggest piece of junk I've ever owned. Video quality also went down after a firmware update, but I needed to do the firmware update in order for the thing to work with modern discs. The reason why this might affect you is that manufacturers often reuse portions of firmware code in different models. I believe other manufacturers are putting Flexible Recording and simple TBCs into their products, so Panasonics aren't so revolutionary now.

[usually_quiet]

I want to make a few more comments regarding RAM discs and other DVD media, for that matter. You appear to have done some research and may already know all of this, but I’ll say it anyway, just in case you don’t. I know I didn’t have a clue about any of this a year ago when I started using a DVD recorder.

DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, and DVD-RW are not good choices for archiving recordings. They are expensive compared to DVD+R and DVD–R and probably not as permanent. I also seem to remember that some stand-alone DVD players aren’t able to play them, especially DVD-RAM. I recommend using a computer to copy to DVD+R or DVD-R when you get good recordings of your tapes.

DVD-RAM recordings have different file and folder names from those on a properly finalized DVD of one of the other types (at least they do on my Panasonic), so copying the files to a DVD-R or DVD+R and getting a playable disc might not be as straightforward a process as with a finalized DVD+RW or DVD-RW. (DVD-RAM discs can’t be finalized, at least on a Panasonic)

I also seem to remember reading somewhere (I can’t recall the source now) that recordings edited on a stand-alone recorder may contain errors that make them unplayable on other machines. Since I don’t have personal experience in this matter, perhaps someone else can verify or refute this.

In my case it’s been fun playing with DVD-RAM, but I'd be willing to do without them for my next DVD recorder purchase. There may be some people who do find them essential or at least extremely useful, but I suspect they are in the minority.

[StuR]

Thanks for all the replies ,
Most of the answers refer to the type of disk not the recorder make/type. Is that as important a factor as the brand of the recorder. I imagine I'll stick to either +or- when I get a recorder but it would be good to have the option to decide after I've bought it (i.e. dual format)
Another brand I've considered was a
Samsung DVD-HR720, £120 which seemed a good deal as it has the addition of a 80G hardrive, but only Ram, R-,RW-. I've read on this site that Samsung often use older Panasonic parts so should they be considered in the same light.
I'd be interested if anyone new of a location on the web that gave a clear comparison of peoples experiance with their DVD recorders, and a simple guide to dealing with 'old VHS archiving'
cheers

[samijubal]

Stay away from anything Samsung. Virtually everything they sell is problem prone.

[usually_quiet]

StuR Wrote:

I'd be interested if anyone new of a location on the web that gave a clear comparison of peoples experiance with their DVD recorders …

Last year, I desperately wanted to find the same. This website and the consumer reviews for individual models posted at retail websites, and shopping websites were the most helpful resources I could find then. Recently, I had reason to start shopping around again, and found nothing had really changed in that respect.

Part of the problem is that now most DVD recorders are on the market for a year or less before a newer model replaces them. So, by the time an actual consumer has used a particular model of DVD recorder long enough to really know its strengths and weaknesses, and write a useful review, it’s pretty much too late. All you can do is look at previous models’ reviews for the same brand and hope they are still applicable.

StuR Wrote:

... and a simple guide to dealing with 'old VHS archiving'

From reading the posts on this webste for the past year, I get the feeling that dealing with old or poor quality tapes is frequently not a simple matter, and additional hardware or software is often needed to get a good result, or that sometimes nothing will really help much. In the event you have problems, you can always look for assistance here.

[RabidDog]

Why not just use dvd-r as they are so cheap ? Lots of drives read dvd-ram but relatively few can write them.
What about pioneer hx440 (a bit expensive tho but Hard disk might make archiving simpler)

[StuR]

Cheers all,
looks like the samsung's gone! (last of old model 730 is £100+!)
my main problem is knowing what actual internal features DVD Recorders have to cope with poor picture quality. I've read that LG offer some kinds of image correction, along with Panasonic. JVC seem to offer internal Time Based Correction which I believe helps correct VHS flicker.
But I don't want to waste money on a recorder that doesn't do what I want it for. Especially if some more money would have bought me the right thing. The avoidance of extra boxs between the video and dvd would be a real help, too save money and space
So can anyone through some light on these features and any recorders they have that have worked for them.
Cheers