DVD-9 to DVD-9?

[theskid]

what is the best way to back up a DVD-9 ripped via DVDFAB dycrypter to a DVD DL+R
essential a 1:1 back up

[bobkart]

Any way you can write a DL disc from the source (is it a VIDEO_TS folder or an ISO file?) should be fine. You don't need "the best" way, just any way. Lots of applications are capable of burning a disc from VIDEO_TS folders and/or ISO files. I use Nero to burn from VIDEO_TS folders, I don't use ISO files.

EDIT: Just checked the Tools page for it and it does not write ISO's according to one comment. So just burn the VIDEO_TS folder to a DL disc the same way you would burn any VIDEO_TS folder to any disc.

[lordsmurf]

Nero does not properly set the layer break. Open your files in PgcEdit and burn with ImgBurn. Follow the guide on this site, it's very easy.

[bobkart]

Just as an additional data point, I've used Nero to burn VIDEO_TS folders to DVD+R DL discs on dozens of occasions, with zero problems. So I guess I've been getting lucky.

[hech54]

I only trust ImgBurn (or DVDDecrypter) for my DL burns.

[ROF]

I use Nero 7 for all my optical burning needs.

[jman98]

bobkart - You've been lucky. I most strongly suggest you take a look at the following:
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
Scroll to the bottom to read "Technical Information Regarding 32K Gaps". Please note that if you use Nero for burning that Nero does NOT use 32K gaps. If your IFO file gets corrupted because a block goes bad, the corresponding BUP file will most likely be in the same block due to the way Nero works and your DVD will be unplayable.
It is correct that Nero does not correctly set the layer break, but this is really only a problem for image files and DVD-R DL discs. If you drag ripped files from the VIDEO_TS folder into Nero and burn to DVD+R DL discs, they will work fine with the caveat that there will not be a 32K gap between BUP and IFO.

[VegasBud]

If you're having difficulty finding the guide that lordsmurf recommended (there are so many), it's here. Personally, I would follow his advice to use the guide, hech54's advice to use ImgBurn, and heed the warning by jman98.

[garryheather]

Sonic's RecordNow ! Deluxe seems to do a good job with dual layer... look for an absolutely stonking thread elsewhere on this site that discusses it in some depth.

[LT9000]

I had a layer break problem when following the guide referenced by Vegasbud. Ever since, I've just done DVDDecryptor >iso>read, then imgburn to write using the mds file. That's my method of doing DL and I've had good results so far.

Does anyone know if imgburn will automatically make 32k gaps when burning from an mds file created by DVD Decryptor in iso mode?

[LT9000]

And I wonder if ripit4me doesn't almost render the guide obsolete b/c it automates the process.

I've not tried it yet, but I soon will.

[VegasBud]

LT9000,

Yes, the DvdDecrypter iso-read, ImgBurn iso-write is the easiest, most foolproof way to backup a dvd to dual layer. Unfortunately, that technique doesn't work with the newer copy protection methods, or if you remove previews, warnings, and/or other nuisances.

Does anyone know if imgburn will automatically make 32k gaps when burning from an mds file created by DVD Decryptor in iso mode?

No it doesn't. The 32k gaps must be inserted by the program that creates the iso. LightningUK! says version 2 of ImgBurn will have the option to automatically insert 32k gaps.

...I wonder if ripit4me doesn't almost render the guide obsolete b/c it automates the process.

RipIt4Me only does rips. It has no iso, layer break, or burn functions. In terms of the old saying, RipIt4Me is an apple, and the guide is about oranges.

I had a layer break problem when following the guide...

I'm sorry to hear that. For most people, PgcEdit and that guide is all that stands between them and the dl chaos that existed before r0lZ came to the rescue with PgcEdit, and blutach wrote the original guide. It was a dark time.

If you'll give us the details of how the guide-directed burn failed, someone can probably help you figure out what went wrong. Once your technique is corrected, and you get a good burn or two, you'll never again be a victim of dual layer burning problems.

[LT9000]

Thanks for your answer. The movie was Team America: World Police.

It looked like a frame was stuck (frozen) halfway at the layer break just for a second, but it played on fine after that.

There was only one spot to set the break.

My DVDD/imgburn method has never done that to me, but I know it has weaknesses too.

Hey, can you make an iso file from video files on your HDD? How would you do it?

Also, do we have to worry about the gaps on SL?

[bobkart]

Hey, can you make an iso file from video files on your HDD? How would you do that?

How To Author

[VegasBud]

There was only one spot to set the break.

There was only one entry in the list of available spots, or there was only one entry that was colored (not gray)?

...can you make an iso file from video files on your HDD?

Yes, you can. The best freeware solutions are ImgTools Classic (it must be the "Classic" version) for single layer, and PgcEdit for dual layer.

...do we have to worry about the gaps on SL?

32k gaps are just as important on a single layer as a dual layer.

Just so you know your options, ImgBurn version 2 is supposed to be released at any time. The new version makes it unnecessary to create an iso first, and is supposed to contain the new state of the art method for layer break setting on dual layer. While it wouldn't hurt to learn the current way of doing things, there's probably going to be a much easier way to accomplish the same tasks very soon. That said, I'll still be happy to help you with the current way of doing things, if you'd like to continue.

[LT9000]

"32k gaps are just as important on a single layer as a dual layer."

OK, let's say I'm going from SL disc to SL media (DVD 5 to DVD 5 operation.) I use DVDD in iso, and then imgburn to write in that case.

Will I still have the 32k gap problem to worry about? If so, how should it be done.

[LT9000]

"There was only one entry in the list of available spots, or there was only one entry that was colored (not gray)? "

Can't remember for sure to be honest.

I think there was only one place to put it.

[bobkart]

Will I still have the 32k gap problem to worry about? If so, how should it be done.

I would imagine that the source disc would already have a 32K gap, and that gap would be preserved when you went from the source disc to ISO, then preserved again when you went from that ISO to the destination disc.

[VegasBud]

If you use DvdDecrypter-iso-read to make the iso, the layout contained in the iso will be an exact representation of the layout on the disk. If the source dvd had proper 32k gaps, the iso will have them. If the source dvd didn't have proper 32k gaps, the iso won't either. If the source disk is a commercial disk, it will have proper 32k gaps. If the source disk was home authored, it depends on the competence of the author.

ImgBurn just faithfully reproduces the layout in the iso back to a disk, which is why the proper creation of the iso is so important.

I think there was only one place to put it.

While I have seen that, it's very unusual. It indicates there was only one cell start in the entire area where a possible layer break could go. Either most of the possible layer break area was filled with the tail end of a gigantic cell, or the cell which started in the possible layer break area was gigantic. In either circumstance, if the only existing cell start is not a good place for a layer break, you can probably split the giant cell at a more appropriate place (using VobBlanker), which would give you another choice in PgcEdit for the layer break location.

[LT9000]

"If the source dvd had proper 32k gaps, the iso will have them."

"ImgBurn just faithfully reproduces the layout in the iso back to a disk..."

Then why wouldn't this also be the case with DL as well (at least w/ commercial disks) when using DVDDecryptor >iso>read for the rip, then imgburn to write using the mds file?

[VegasBud]

You're absolutely right. If the source disk is a commercial one, and you use DvdDecrypter-iso-read and ImgBurn for the burn (using the mds), the 32k gaps will be correct, as will the layer break.

But that's only if you can rip the source disk just with DvdDecrypter. The new protection methods are intentionally (and seriously) trying to prevent DvdDecrypter from doing just that. All the ripping methods that can defeat such protections must make changes to the structure and file sizes to transform the garbage into a dvd compliant rip that you can use. It's those changes which mess up the 32k gaps and layer break.

[LT9000]

Thanks for the info, I have found this very interesting.

So to sum up, my method of DVD decryptor, and then image burn is okay for DVD 5 to DVD 5, or double layer burning DVD 9 to DVD 9, so long as we're not dealing with the new encryption type, and imageburn 2 may soon automate the solution to the 32k gap problem where the new encryption is involved. Is that right?

Now let me ask about DVD 9 to DVD 5 if I haven't worn you out.

My method for that is to rip with DVD decryptor in file mode, and then reauthor and/or compress with DVD shrink.

From there, I just burn DVD shrink's output video files with Nero.

Should I have a 32K gap problem in this case?

Is there a better way to go about DVD 9 to DVD 5?

[bobkart]

It was mentioned above by jeman98 that Nero does not properly set the 32K gap.

[VegasBud]

So to sum up, my method of DVD decryptor, and then image burn is okay for DVD 5 to DVD 5, or double layer burning DVD 9 to DVD 9, so long as we're not dealing with the new encryption type, and imageburn 2 may soon automate the solution to the 32k gap problem where the new encryption is involved. Is that right?

Yes.

Is there a better way to go about DVD 9 to DVD 5?

The only thing I would change is using ImgBurn instead of Nero for the burning. To get the iso for ImgBurn, just use ImgTools Classic on the video files from DvdShrink.

Now you've got me wondering if you just output an iso from DvdShrink, would the 32k gaps be there? That would eliminate the extra ImgTools Classic step. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, or if anyone has ever even checked that. I can check it out, but it will take a day or two until I can find the time. Meanwhile, to be safe, just do the extra ImgTools Classic step.

[LT9000]

"The only thing I would change is using ImgBurn instead of Nero for the burning. To get the iso for ImgBurn, just use ImgTools Classic on the video files from DvdShrink."

OK I'll try that shortly. I guess you're saying that way the 32k gaps will be there?

"Now you've got me wondering if you just output an iso from DvdShrink, would the 32k gaps be there? That would eliminate the extra ImgTools Classic step. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, or if anyone has ever even checked that."

Let us know what you find out.

[Seeker47]

For most people, PgcEdit and that guide is all that stands between them and the dl chaos that existed before r0lZ came to the rescue with PgcEdit, and blutach wrote the original guide. It was a dark time.
. . .
The new protection methods are intentionally (and seriously) trying to prevent DvdDecrypter from doing just that. All the ripping methods that can defeat such protections must make changes to the structure and file sizes to transform the garbage into a dvd compliant rip that you can use. It's those changes which mess up the 32k gaps and layer break.

Before this PGCedit method, I'm sure there were serious problems -- but not necessarily disastrous problems. (A disaster in my book would be a coaster, or a DVD that was so compromised as to be useless.) As I mentioned in other threads, my standard backup method on DL had been to go 1:1 with Shrink, to a DL blank. In some cases, I had to do the rip with Fab Decrypter first instead of letting Shrink do the rip. What were the results ? Sometimes parts of the menu navigation did not work, or the last several chapters did not show up in the menus, although the rest of the movie was indeed present, and would play. I believe I could watch the whole movie straight through, though. (We're talking about some 20 - 30 DVDs here. Some of them came out perfect, incidentally) However, since I haven't watched all these backups from start to finish, I can't be completely certain about this. I also don't know if the results would have been any different, had I gone from DVD-9 to two DVD-5s using Shrink. (Reauthor + slider bar to divide method.) Of course in that scenario you have to give up the menuing, unless you follow several additional procedures that I find more trouble than they are worth.
I'd like to try out the Blutach PGCedit method a few times to get familiar with it, but from reading the guide my impression is that it will be much more involved and hands-on than the way I had been doing it.

[VegasBud]

I checked for 32k gaps in iso's created by DvdShrink, ImgTools Classic, and PgcEdit. In a worst case scenario, only the iso created by PgcEdit had 32k gaps. The iso's created by DvdShrink or ImgTools Classic did not have 32k gaps.

It was particularly depressing to find that ImgTools Classic doesn't assure 32k gaps because I had been led to believe it did, and consequently used it for any dvd-5 backups I have made. Does that mean all my dvd-5 backups are weakened? No, but some are.

After going through all the steps to make a worst case set of dvd files for the testing, then running the tests, it turns out you can tell pretty easily just by looking at the sizes of the dvd files whether the 32k gap is a problem for a particular dvd. If the filesize of an IFO, plus the filesize(s) of the related VOB(s) is less than 32k (32,768 bytes), then at least part of the IFO and BUP are in the same ECC block. Damage to that area of the disk can make playback impossible. In the case of VIDEO_TS.IFO and VIDEO_TS.BUP, the entire disk is unplayable. In the case of a titleset, for example VTS_01_0.IFO and VTS_01_0.BUP, that titleset is unplayable.

The only good news my testing showed is that PgcEdit does assure 32k gaps. If you want to make the best dvd's you can, then you should only use PgcEdit to produce the iso's, whether they are for single layer, or dual layer.

Just so no one is confused, this doesn't affect you, if you are using DvdDecrypter-iso-read to produce the iso.

[VegasBud]

Seeker47,

If you have a system that works for you, it's perfectly reasonable to keep using that system, and resist using a different system that is unfamiliar and unproven (to you). What works for anyone is what they should use. However, if you've only had to use something like DvdFab Decrypter a few times, you probably haven't run into some of the potential problems yet. Most likely, though, as time goes by, more disks will have the newer protections, which will continue to get nastier. If, at some point in the future, your current technique becomes less reliable, maybe some of the information in this thread will be of use.

[LT9000]

Thanks for taking the time to test that Vegas.

“The only good news my testing showed is that PgcEdit does assure 32k gaps. If you want to make the best dvd's you can, then you should only use PgcEdit to produce the iso's, whether they are for single layer, or dual layer.”

So for DVD 9 to DVD 5, we can just go DVD Decryptor rip in file mode, DVD Shrink for compress/reauthor, pgcedit for iso creation from shrink output files, and finally imgburn write from the .mds (iso) that pgcedit created. This way we’ll have the 32k gaps present. Is that right?

If so, can somebody show how to do the iso creation of video files in pgc edit with 32k gaps, I’ve forgotten. What menu to start with?

Thanks again Vegas.

[VegasBud]

So for DVD 9 to DVD 5, we can just go DVD Decryptor rip in file mode, DVD Shrink for compress/reauthor, pgcedit for iso creation from shrink output files, and finally imgburn write from the .mds (iso) that pgcedit created. This way we’ll have the 32k gaps present. Is that right?

Almost entirely correct. PgcEdit doesn't create a mds file, it uses the ImgBurn CLI interface to open ImgBurn and pass the burning parameters directly from within PgcEdit.

...can somebody show how to do the iso creation of video files in pgc edit with 32k gaps...

Of course.

First, if you've never used PgcEdit for iso creation/burning:

Click "Options" - "Input/Output" - and make sure "When saving. leave at least 32k..." is checked

Also in "Options" - "Input/Output" click on "Burn/Create ISO setup". In the window that pops up, most of the blanks should be filled in by PgcEdit, but you need to set the "Dvd burner drive letter". While you're there, it would be a good idea to read through the page to make sure everything is the way you want it. Click the "Save" button to close the window, and you're all done with the preliminaries.

Now for the burning:
Either click on the flaming disk in the toolbar, or click "File" - "Burn DVD/Create ISO"
Select where you want the iso to go, and the volume name for the disk
Make sure "Burn ISO image using ImgBurn" is checked
Make sure "Start Burn immediately" is checked
You can change the burn speed if you want
Click the "OK" button

PgcEdit will create the ISO, open ImgBurn, and start the burning.

For dual layer, everything is the same, except a layer break selection window pops up before the burn window.