DVD resolutions: The true behind?

[SatStorm]

Hi to all
As we all know, the commercial DVD video picture resolution is D1. That is 720 X 576 for PAL or 720 X 480 for NTSC
Some video freaks like me, did a little searce and find out that there is also another known picture resolution for DVD video, D2. It is 352 X 576 for Pal and 352 X 480 for NTSC. It is better SVHS and the difference with D1 is not noticable on standard TV screens.
Today, this resolution is recomended for capture VHS and SVHS, and it is used by CVD (Chaoji VCD), the china's format of SVCD, full compatible with SVCD. For political issues, D2 never became full known outside china and manufactury Labs... One reason also is that the Jap's and their companies, do anything to unsupport the format. It is a Hidden one, but hey, it is there!!!
On my tests with DVD - R compatible standalones, I can say that this format is full playable with no probs, and gives amazing quality. With "smart" encoding, you can handle 3.5 - 4 hours of HQ video on a 4.7 DVD-R disk.

But the last months, a "new" DVD format appeared. I talking for "D4", 352 X 288 for Pal and 352 X 240 for NTSC. This format in a way became "standard" after the relase of TMPGenc 2.50.
We know this picture resolution from VCD and also some xSVCD templates, like our loved sefy's SxVCD. My own version (optimized for satellite media) is called Lp SVCD, but the true is that we all have our own versions of xSVCD. The point is that in a way, this format now became more "standard" that SVCD!!! By de-mux mpeg 2 files made as 352 X 288 mpeg 2 SVCD and feed DVD authoring progs, don't mention standard VCD mpeg 1 stuff, many DVDs can handle them, even if they don't support true SVCD!
I just done a search on asian forums for this and find out that this "format" is in a way the unofficional answer of Japan to "china's" 352 X 576 D2 video resolution for home made media!
The question is: Which format is really more compatible with our standalones? D2 or D4?
For quality issues, D2 is superior, but a flexible D4 can be a great alternative on same cases, expecially if it is a true standard and not a simply japanise test....
Please testify your thought on that, also your experience with -X- formats, in use with DVD - R (or +RW)
D4 is a reality or just a market test?

The future is digital, and we must get ready for it!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SatStorm on 2002-01-10 06:06:17 ]</font>

[Jason A]

All these resolutions you have spoke of are already well known. There is nothing "new" about your findings.

As for your thread title "DVD resolutions: The true beyond", I was disapointed...

This is not "true beyond", but going downhill!!!

720x480 is the best for now...unless you can capture or record in true 4:2:2 Component Digital or 525-line progressive digital..

"TRUE BEYOND" for me is anything over 480i which is what DVD is...

I'm currently getting into 1920x1080i High Definition recording and mastering....

I now have 3 HD demos 8 minutes long and 1.6gb a piece!!!

That's TRUE BEYOND

Jason

[SatStorm]

Hi Jason A
It seems that you forget something: The only well known DVD resolution, is the commercial one: 720 X 576 (480). All the others (d2, d4) are not public! They are discoveries of power users like us. Also, the title of the post is "The true beyond?". I am asking to learn. Also, I don't say I find them... I learn them from here. I also testify my tests. That is the point of the forums you know. So the question remains and if you don't like the title change it to "The true behind?"

- Is 352 X 288 a DVD format, of just a trick from our friends manufactures in Japan?
- What is the compatibility of this resolution on DVD standalones? (Burned as DVD, not VCD or SVCD)
- Are there any other well know resolutions for DVD?
I suspect one: 720 X 288 (240)! Why I say that? Because this resolution appears to many captured cards... Maybe this is D3?

Lately, not many people answer my posts. That means that:
1. My posts sucks
2. My posts are useless
3. My posts are not mainstream, so not many people can answer them
4. People here don't like me

and the answer I prefer
5. There are too many posts in this forum, so many times, my posts change page, and less people read it!

[KennyC]

Hi SatStorm,

I find your posts really enlightening, I learn something each time I read one.

Maybe they should start a FORUM just for your posts and similarly talented teachers.

Cheers.

[JHebert]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2002-01-03 19:28:48, Jason A wrote:

I'm currently getting into 1920x1080i High Definition recording and mastering....
I now have 3 HD demos 8 minutes long and 1.6gb a piece!!!
That's TRUE BEYOND

Jason
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

What is your process for recording and authoring these High Definition videos?
I don't know of any analog capture cards that can do High Definition resolution. Instead of capturing, are you copying files from a PVR recorder and if so which ones can record in HDTV format? What software are you using? Are you playing it back on your computer monitor or outputting to a HDTV set?
I don't have an HDTV yet but I'm interested in finding out more info on this for the future.

[kon]

Question 2 SatStorm:

Thanks for 'reminding me' of the 352x576 res which is a legal DVD resolution. this is a great way to get more material onto one dvdr media. The qulaity is surprisngly good.(of course its not like commercial dvd which is 720x576-pal) but its as good as svcd which aint bad.
My question is about authoring the DVD. Do u know of a DVD authoring app that lets u 'mix' resolutions - have one clip @720x576 the other @352x576. DVDit dosnt allow it. VP5 dosnt recognise 352x576 as legal ( it does let u mix 720x576 with 704x576).

[SatStorm]

@KennyC: Thanks, it is the first good words for me in 2002!
@JHebert: Personal Video Recorders (PVR) just store the DVB /s/c/t transmissions. Those transmissions in theory are limited today to full Pal or Ntsc (720 X 576 PAL,480 NTSC) with a bitrate about 15.000kb/s! In praxis, most of those transmissions are on lower resolutions/bitrates...
So, with PVR you can't grabb 1920x1080, 'cause there is no such a transmission!

@Kon: No, I don't know any authoring program allow that... Most of them ain't flexible yet.
I hope soon the software became better and more flexible...
I did some tests with nero, but those DVD-r wasn't that compatible to standalones... Ain't true dvds...
704 X 576 is the broadcast pal resolution, while the 720 X 576 is the Full pal resolution.
With 352 X 576 and a bitrate about min 1200, average 2620 max 3100, you can get amazing quality with 2pas vbr and tmpgenc 2.5. For standard TV is Great! For HDTV is "nice", or "good", not perfect. DVDs for HDTV is "very good"!
But, let me tell something here: Digital TV, DVB, maybe is flexible, but I don't see any intention to go higher on resolutions. 720 X 576 (480) seems to be the highest resolution intention. So, I believe, D2 is like VHS of the future and D1 like SVHS of the future...
Not bad...

[Xesdeeni]

I don't know about your DVD player, but mine cheats to display 352x480 (encoded onto xSVCD) and it shows. I get vertical lines in the picture, most visible when the image moves from side to side. I counted the lines and there are exactly 16 of them. Unless I miss my guess, they are taking the 352, pixel-doubling it to 704, and then pixel replicating every 44th pixel to reach 720.

The bottom line is that it looks like crap. I had to go back to 480x480 for the xSVCD (increasing MPEG artifacts, but they are a lot better than the vertical lines), and I suspect I'll have to stick to 720x480 when I get a DVD burner.

Xesdeeni

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xesdeeni on 2002-01-08 07:35:05 ]</font>

[SatStorm]

Hi Xesdeeni
CVD is 352 X 576 and it is not xSVCD! In a way it is exactly the same settings as SVCD, but you change the resolution to 352 X 576
D2 is a DVD resolution. Half pal (352 X 576). You can test it with DVD - R discs, not CD-R ones...
I can report players capable to play 352 X 576 burned on DVD-Rs and failed to play the same file as CVD burned on CD-Rs!
CVD and DVD share the same resolution, but it is not the same thing!

Tip: The bad picture you get, seems to be the typical "field order" problem... CVD and D2 is much more sensitive to this issue than SVCD and D1 DVD.
Try this: In tmpegenc, load your file and load the SVCD template. Unlock it and set the resolution to 352 X 576 without change anything else. Then go and change the fild order (setting - advance) from the default Bottom field first (field B) to Top Field first (field A)...
Also always set on the video menu encode mode : Interlace !
The burn with nero as non standard svcd.
And a final thing: SVCD, VCD and CVD are made for TV! Not PC monitors. If you want to create PC media, go Divx!
Judge CVD/SVCD on TV with interlace output files!