Where to get good media.

[videobread]

After being jerked around with bad media from the three major internet suppliers I have found the secret to getting good media. I now only buy from professional suppliers. Suppliers who sell pro lines of camcorders, etc and sell to video production houses, schools and universities, etc. I buy Verbatim at $.60 and TY at $.55. They are the real thing. I have found that the internet suppliers servicing our community are selling rejected lots at least half the time. I just don't go there any more. The final straw for me was TY "Value" Line. Never again. You get what you pay for. I got to where I was afraid of my own product.

[lordsmurf]

www.supermediastore.com
www.meritline.com
www.rima.com
www.allmediaoutlet.com

I don't know you're going on and on about. The discs all come from the same place.

TY value line is good media. It's TY, but for whatever reason, did not get the high-speed stamp of approval. Burn it either 4x or a half-speed under rating (6x on 8x, 12x on 16x, etc).

It reminds me of something I saw in a tiny town once. The people said the older restaurant had "better meat" than the new one. Both places got their beef form the same local slaughterhouse, from the same rancher. The real issue is townfolks were unfriendly towards the "newcomers" in town.

Pro suppliers probably bought their discs from somebody like rima.com anyway, because they are too small to be able to deal directly with the manufacturer. That's why it cost more, because they need to make a profit over the price they were charged by the actual importer.

Sorry man, myth busted.

[videobread]

Keep an open mind. The suppliers you listed are just the ones I have had problems with. There are three customer classes - consumer, pro-sumer and profesional. Professional suppliers are licensed sellers of Panasonic, Sony, JVC, etc. They sell $25,000 camcorders, grass valley systems, avid systems, etc. They have large solesource contracts with major universities, corporations, etc.. They are big, multimillion dollar operation. They do not buy DVD's from Rima!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They buy in large quantity from directly from TY, etc. Like I said, keep an open mind. There is a whole nother world out there. I duplicate DVD's more than one at a time. My drives are wired in series. If one disc fails I lose the whole batch. I can't aford to buy crap. The TY "Value" line that was the last straw for me was so bad that I had to burn disc one at a time or I would lose a whole batch. I have never had to do that with any media ever. And to add insult to injury they burned slow.

[ROF]

I duplicate DVD's more than one at a time. My drives are wired in series. If one disc fails I lose the whole batch. I can't aford to buy crap. The TY "Value" line that was the last straw for me was so bad that I had to burn disc one at a time or I would lose a whole batch. I have never had to do that with any media ever. And to add insult to injury they burned slow.

Ty value line is great. Of course, most people who have a tremendous need for multiple replication usually purchase a machine dedicated to such things. They do not waste electricity, time, or processing power by "stringing" out a bunch of drives and hoping for the best.

BTW, have you ever considered that something besides the media might be causing your issues. Multiple drives doing the same thing require a tremendous amount of disc, HDD, and Processing power. I'd suspect your issue lies within your process of burning instead of with the quality media you are purchasing.

Another suggestion is that if your "final straw" was a disc with a label that says "value line" I'd rather not know what you considered better than or equal to that.

[lordsmurf]

Keep an open mind. The suppliers you listed are just the ones I have had problems with. There are three customer classes - consumer, pro-sumer and profesional. Professional suppliers are licensed sellers of Panasonic, Sony, JVC, etc. They sell $25,000 camcorders, grass valley systems, avid systems, etc. They have large solesource contracts with major universities, corporations, etc.. They are big, multimillion dollar operation. They do not buy DVD's from Rima!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They buy in large quantity from directly from TY, etc. Like I said, keep an open mind. There is a whole nother world out there. I duplicate DVD's more than one at a time. My drives are wired in series. If one disc fails I lose the whole batch. I can't aford to buy crap. The TY "Value" line that was the last straw for me was so bad that I had to burn disc one at a time or I would lose a whole batch. I have never had to do that with any media ever. And to add insult to injury they burned slow.

I think you're assuming too much. Because they sell cameras doesn't mean anything about their knowledge or import routes on blank media.

If you did not want to "burn slow" then TY value line purchase was your own fault.

From the whopping 3 posts you've had on this forum to date, it sounds to me that you fall under one (or both) of two categories:

1 - Too cheap for your own good. Quit buying discount products and expecting top of the line performance. This is not the way to go for professional duplication (you would think this is common sense).

2 - The whole situation sounds fishy, like a shill. Bash known good stores, then talk about mysterious "other stores" that sell better products. All we need for the trifecta is name-dropping on this new magic "pro" company.

I have an open mind. But I also have "bullshit filters" in place.

[SCDVD]

Videobread, I see that you are a three-post wonder. From your profile I see that you are an expert in making bread. From your posts I see that you are not an expert in things DVD. I also see that someone has sold you a bill of goods to justify price gouging you. I suggest that you start by buying a real DVD duplicator instead of slapping a couple of burners in your computer and cranking up Nero or something. ALL real duplicators reject any failed burns independently - not some, ALL! I have used a huge amount of Value Line media and have found it to be excellent. When I hear contrary input, I have to wonder what the angle is. I say angle because I know first hand that it isn't fact that I'm hearing! "My drives are wired in series" - what a load of crap!

[videobread]

Everyone is an expert. I have 2 Pioneer A109's in my workstation. I used to have two A06's. Every once in a while I upgrade. Duplicating two at a time is sufficient for my needs and much less expensive than buying a stand alone duplicating system. I have never had a problem burning two discs at a time untill trying TY "Value" line. I have tried a lot of media out there and know you get what you pay for. Read the media reports. How many bad reports do you see? There is a problem with the quality of media out there. Supplies are selling B-stock to consumers. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

[lordsmurf]

Nobody here is claiming "expert" but we are crying foul to myth and baloney.

"B-stock" is where you get overprints and goof-ball brands. That and fakes. Much of that is actually rejected for all kinds of reasons, not just quality control in terms of potential burn quality.

When you eliminate secondary causes, media reports are positive on TY DVD-R media. Actually they are overly positive (MCC and MXL is actually better quality media). YUDEN is tops, that is for sure.

[ROF]

I duplicate DVD's more than one at a time. My drives are wired in series. If one disc fails I lose the whole batch.

The whole batch? So you lose 2 sub .30 discs? What a travesty of the wallet.

[JimmyJoeBob]

Could this be SpectateSwamp from the OT thread?????????

[OneSickPup]

I have an open mind. But I also have "bullshit filters" in place.

That just made #1 on my ALLTIME HALL-OF-FAME QUOTES FROM LORDSMURF chart.

@Videobread
You're gonna find this a tough place to make those kinds of accusations and get a sympathetic ear. I do have an open mind but you have to give us some substance that will refute everything we have observed contrary to your opinion. I spend a lot of time testing media and even more time reading in the Blank Media Forum over at CDFreaks.com. There are numerous threads dealing with TY Value-Line media that have what I consider documented evidence of its quality and consistency - being hundreds - maybe thousands of TRT's, quality scans, etc. I know some people question the value of scanning and I respect those opinions. But when you post something there and you have numerous experts commenting - it is about as good a measuring stick as you will find - IMO.

[OneSickPup]

I have 2 Pioneer A109's in my workstation. I used to have two A06's.

I almost forgot. What firmware are you using on those 109's and what Media code have you received in your Value-Line orders? The downside to ordering TY Value-Line is that you may receive either TYG01(4x) - TYG02(8x) or TYG03(16x). Firmware support for TYG03 is still lagging even today on many burners. If your firmware is old and you're using TYG03 that could explain some things.

[videobread]

The Value line TY's are TYG02's per DVD Identifier and I'm using the newest firmware per Pioneer #FW158. I paid $30 for 100 Value TYG02's. That's $.30 each. 21 were coasters. Therefore I paid $30 for 79 discs. That is a real cost of $.38 each. That is no value. That is the same price as TY "premium" at the same suppliers. I had to burn them slow and one at a time. It took forever.
Recently I had a batch of 300 Ritek G05's. 75 were coasters. That sounds worse than the TY Value line, but was not because I was burning two at a time. I paid $93 and had an real cost of $.41 each ($93/225 burned discs). If I had burnt one at a time I would have had 1/2 the coasters.
I also bought 100 TYG02's premium for $39. Only 8 coaster. Not bad. That means only 4 were bad and I lost 4 by burning two at a time.
All disc purchased from the three major online suppliers are about the same "real cost". There is one problem though. All disc scans show poor quality ratings using varied source images. They show spikes/PI failures at the same spots on the discs within the same batch. These spikes are faults. They may burn, read and play, but they are faults. They manufactures is well aware of the faults and prices them accordingly. If a batch is really bad they won't put their name on them.
During the manufacturing process the quality control department audits production. They sample all batches produced by burning one out of every so many discs. Batches are graded by quality and priced accordingly. Consumers get the " B grade" stock. That "Value" line was more like "C" stock. The good stuff, A grade, rarely goes to comsumer suppliers. There is a whole nother market out there. I now get good quality readings with no spikes. To repeat I pay $.55 for Ty and $.60 for Ver. To me it's worth it.

[OneSickPup]

The coaster rates (even of the premium variety you mention) are excessively high by my standards. What are you scanning with? Could you post some scans for us to evaluate? I sincerely think you have more going on here than bad media.

[ROF]

The Value line TY's are TYG02's per DVD Identifier and I'm using the newest firmware per Pioneer #FW158. I paid $30 for 100 Value TYG02's. That's $.30 each. 21 were coasters. Therefore I paid $30 for 79 discs. That is a real cost of $.38 each. That is no value. That is the same price as TY "premium" at the same suppliers. I had to burn them slow and one at a time. It took forever.

Since quality media is obviously very important to you and since you burn a "batch" of discs at a time(read 2 at a time) why are you even considering purchasing "value" branded media?

I am glad that when I purchase a "batch" of memory sticks it comes in a 25 pack bundle and not two.

[videobread]

Here is a scan of TYG02 Premium. I had 8 coasters out of 100. 4 were due to burning 2 at a time. Maybe I messed up 1. So, say 3 in 100 were bad disc. The good ones all read as follows: They spike at about 3.2 gig on the disc. I burn differnt image files with the same result. The same spike at the same 3.2 gig.
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[lordsmurf]

Where to begin...

- Do not scan at 8x.
- Pioneer is not a scanning drive.
- TY "value line" should be burned a half-step under max rating of the normal media ID for best results (6x on TYG02 media is suggested).
- Your "duplicator" setup is clearly not a duplicator setup, but rather some flukey computer with multi burners on Nero/RN/whatever, and that stuff never works.
- Your source disc is from a DVD recorder, and I tend to wonder if the ROM reading the disc was having trouble, as some of those DVD RECORDER made discs can act oddly. The ROM itself may be substandard.
- Duplication is an abusive burning situation, so coaster ratios often increase exponentially depending on the normal grade of the media.
- 8 coasters out of 100 discs is a 92% success rate and is quite decent for what you're doing, given all the variables in your setup.

Your statement of "The good stuff, A grade, rarely goes to comsumer suppliers" is complete and utter baloney, for the record. Many of the brand-name medias (Sony, Verbatim, Fuji, Maxell, etc) using good codes are the cream of the crop. Most of the "unbranded" discs are simply unbranded and bulk sold, but otherwise the same as branded ones.

Your assertion that "manufactures is well aware of the faults and prices them accordingly" is also mostly wrong. Because one store charges more than the other doesn't mean the product is better, it means that they make more profit. You'd think some of this stuff would be common consumer sense, but I guess not. I know a few stores that sell PRINCO for $1 apiece, so does that mean those are great discs? Of course not.

Just when I think people are finally starting to understand how the world of video and blank media works, along comes something like this.

[OneSickPup]

That's one ugly scan. You are aware that Pioneer drives are totally unreliable as scanners. Here is an archived scan of a value-line TYG02 burned on a Pioneer 108. Sorry - that's the closest thing I have to your setup. Get a buddy with a Liteon to scan those disks if possible and see if you get different results.

[videobread]

Thanks. That's good info on possible bad scan from Pioneer. When I get an opportunity I will scan on another machine. To sum up: Ritek G05 75/300 coasters burnt 2 at a time, TYG02Value 21/100 coasters burnt one at a time, TYG02 Premium 8/100 coasters - probably 3/100 if someone was burning movies or something one at a time. A good burn is not enough. The scans scare me. I need quality product that plays on ALL players. I am a business. If I was just copying movies for my personal use and they played on my personal player all would be well. That is not my situation. I need them to play on all machiones and hold up - not go tits up after six months.

This is a tough forum. I have been on here since July of 2003 when I first started burning DVD's. It is a great resource. Keep up the good work.

P.S. Had a nightmare last night that these little men with funny hats turned on me and trampled me. They were blue. Not the hats, the little men.

[ROF]

I am a business. If I was just copying movies for my personal use and they played on my personal player all would be well. That is not my situation. I need them to play on all machiones and hold up - not go tits up after six months.

As a business person you must realize that there is a DVD format war and as such you will never be able to achieve 100% compatibility with every machine available. You must also realize that there are several reports which claim that burnt DVD media will not stand up the test of time. You could purchase $600 discs and still not have 100% compatiblity or have them last more than a few months. Not everybody stores their discs in the same manner or in the same environment. As a business person I would assume you would know this. Of course, as a business person I would have assumed you'd have been using something other than a disc labeled "value line" and would be using a decent setup for replication. I am not even in a business and I own a CD replicator.

[OneSickPup]

A good burn is not enough. The scans scare me. I need quality product that plays on ALL players. I am a business. If I was just copying movies for my personal use and they played on my personal player all would be well. That is not my situation. I need them to play on all machiones and hold up - not go tits up after six months.

I understand your situation. My wife involves me several times a year in dvd creation for student submissions to video contests. We create and distribute hundreds of dvd's. Quality and compatability are paramount to success. Shipping costs, confusion, missed entry deadlines, etc become issues quickly. Not a business - actually it's volunteered time - but still important to deliver a quality product.

[classfour]

TY value line from supermediastore.com works fine for me: I have used it on a 3 burner burn without issues. All discs scanned at 95% or better in nerocdspeed. Errors were less than 20 on all scans, all burns were at 4X: The media's rated speed. I do not typically burn media at greater than rated speed on a multiple drive burn. When burning single discs, I will burn at 8X without problems - scans are still above 95%.

As to the machine: 3.0Ghz, 1 Plextor PX712SA; 1 NEC 3520A; 1 Panasonic B111 (1 8X/12X and 2 16X burners) 1 GB RAM, 320GB HDD space. Nothing special, pretty much the minimum for stable DVD burning.

[smitbret]

I've burned about 300 TY Value Line DVD-R in the last couple of months, often with multiple burns at the same time. ZERO COASTERS. And they have played on every DVD player that they have been put in. I don't think there's any doubt at this point that Videobread needs a different hardware set up if he really wants any kind of professional result for his business.
-Brett

[videobread]

Just when you think you've seen everything. Got a 100 pack of TYG02's in the heat shrink. The first 3/4 of an inch of the spool on the top and bottom seemed to be damaged. They were like an accordian. Maybe crushed in shipping. Maybe they just shipped that way. Don't know if they were OK or what. I just sent them back. I just don't mess with crap media anymore.

[smitbret]

I just burnt a spool of 100 TYG02 Value Line from www.supermediastore.com and they all burned great. No coasters. I think I'll order another spindle today. They were sending them with complimentary "crap" ink for every 200 pack you pruchased. I hope it's still going on.
-Brett

[jmp0889]

Videobread

Not only do I agree with you, I have experienced exactly what you were faced with. If you can, post who you buy from that is supplying the top quality TYG02. I used my last one of the top quality and bought three 100 pce spindals from the common suppliers listed & get 4 times the PIE & PIF Errors. Put in one of my good quailty & I'm back to PIE under 10,000 & PIF under 100.