Archive HDTV

[rack]

I am happy encoding SD broadcasts to DVD for archival purposes, but I don't want to do that for HD broadcasts. What is the best way to archive HD programs without sacrificing image quality? H.264? If so, what bit and frame rate are HD DVD spec?

[redwudz]

Look in 'Tools' for programs to convert HDTV to other formats. https://www.videohelp.com/tools?s=32#32

HDTV2DVD is one you might look at. If you just want to view them from your hard drive or convert to data discs, then H264 is one option to keep the size down.

[rack]

Look in 'Tools' for programs to convert HDTV to other formats. https://www.videohelp.com/tools?s=32#32

HDTV2DVD is one you might look at.

I'm trying to avoid HD encoded to DVD.

[edDV]

I'd wait for H.264 hardware encoders because I'm not willing to wait for the software kind.

[Baldrick]

i'd wait for better h264 encoders...or the vc-1(hddvd,bluray compatible) encoder in the windows media encoder studio edition that will be released soon.

[redwudz]

Yes, H264 is slow, probably really slow for HD conversion, even with a fairly fast computer. Throw in a few filters and you may have a long wait.

[edDV]

Grass grows 100x faster.

[SatStorm]

H.264 is our only option for now. But you have to be very patient.

[yoda313]

The only 100% sure way to archive it would be to keep buying external harddrivves and storing the original .tp/.ts transport stream. It would be expensive but that way you'd preserve everysingle bit of information of the original broadcast.

[rack]

The only 100% sure way to archive it would be to keep buying external harddrivves and storing the original .tp/.ts transport stream. It would be expensive but that way you'd preserve everysingle bit of information of the original broadcast.

I'm thinking about this route. 1080i streams are 8 GB/hour (so a 250GB hard drive would store 31 hours of 1080i). This method does have the benefit of no encoding delay.

[jman98]

Well, I am using VideoReDo to edit my HD captures. I only archive 2 shows and they are both on Fox at 720p. After I edit out the commercials, VideoReDo saves the resulting 22 or so minute files at a bit rate of approximately 12000 Kbps as MPEG-2 files. They take up about 2 GB of space, so I can archive 2 of them to current single layer DVDs. I have no way at this time to view them on anything except my 19 inch LCD screen, but they look fine to me. People keep claiming that all HD broadcasts are at something like 20000 Kbps or some such ridiculously high number, but this is not the case where I live. I have examined my over the air captures prior to editing them and they all come in at a bit rate of 15000 Kbps. A lot of the numbers I have seen for estimated file size use that theoretical 20000 Kbps number. I am guessing that my captures may one day be usable to author HD DVDs or Blu Ray, should I ever want to go that route.

[edDV]

Well, I am using VideoReDo to edit my HD captures. I only archive 2 shows and they are both on Fox at 720p. After I edit out the commercials, VideoReDo saves the resulting 22 or so minute files at a bit rate of approximately 12000 Kbps as MPEG-2 files. They take up about 2 GB of space, so I can archive 2 of them to current single layer DVDs. I have no way at this time to view them on anything except my 19 inch LCD screen, but they look fine to me. People keep claiming that all HD broadcasts are at something like 20000 Kbps or some such ridiculously high number, but this is not the case where I live. I have examined my over the air captures prior to editing them and they all come in at a bit rate of 15000 Kbps. A lot of the numbers I have seen for estimated file size use that theoretical 20000 Kbps number. I am guessing that my captures may one day be usable to author HD DVDs or Blu Ray, should I ever want to go that route.

Many stations use ~15000 Kbps for HD and ~4000 Kb/s for a second SD channel. When analog is cut off, this will be typical with the main broadcast on n.1 HDTV channel and the n.2 SDTV version. This will be true for 1080i or 720p.

The 19Mb/s channel capability can also be shared for up to 5x (3800 Kb/s SD) channels. Although 480p is possible, 480i is mostly used for the SD channel. It becomes a marketing decision.

[Soopafresh]

The folks who developed the amazing CoreAVC decoder codec are supposed to be releasing an AVC Encoder in the very near future. BTW, if you haven't tried the CoreAVC decoder, google around for the last free version 0.4 (jan 2006). Their commercial ones are even better.

[edDV]

The folks who developed the amazing CoreAVC decoder codec are supposed to be releasing an AVC Encoder in the very near future. BTW, if you haven't tried the CoreAVC decoder, google around for the last free version 0.4 (jan 2006). Their commercial ones are even better.

So what shortcuts do they use to run faster? Physics is physics. Did Yogi Beara say that?

It seems that their target is more PocketPC type platforms rather than HDTV archiving. Maybe that is only what gets them excited.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104277

[rack]

Well, I am using VideoReDo to edit my HD captures. I only archive 2 shows and they are both on Fox at 720p. After I edit out the commercials, VideoReDo saves the resulting 22 or so minute files at a bit rate of approximately 12000 Kbps as MPEG-2 files. They take up about 2 GB of space, so I can archive 2 of them to current single layer DVDs.

Yes. 1080i seems to come in around 8GB/hour, 720p around 5GB/hour. I have The School of Rock in 720p, 108 minutes, and it's about 9.6 GB.

[edDV]

Well, I am using VideoReDo to edit my HD captures. I only archive 2 shows and they are both on Fox at 720p. After I edit out the commercials, VideoReDo saves the resulting 22 or so minute files at a bit rate of approximately 12000 Kbps as MPEG-2 files. They take up about 2 GB of space, so I can archive 2 of them to current single layer DVDs.

Yes. 1080i seems to come in around 8GB/hour, 720p around 5GB/hour. I have The School of Rock in 720p, 108 minutes, and it's about 9.6 GB.

That's about right for h.264 but there are many levels off quality depending on how much the codec crunches the numbers.

[FulciLives]

What about using a D-VHS VCR since these can record HDTV formats.

Although I have a feeling that copy protection might be an issue?

I understand that Mitsubishi has a very nice yet inexpensive D-VHS VCR ... I remember reading about it on the AVS FORUM website.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[rack]

Well, I am using VideoReDo to edit my HD captures. I only archive 2 shows and they are both on Fox at 720p. After I edit out the commercials, VideoReDo saves the resulting 22 or so minute files at a bit rate of approximately 12000 Kbps as MPEG-2 files. They take up about 2 GB of space, so I can archive 2 of them to current single layer DVDs.

Yes. 1080i seems to come in around 8GB/hour, 720p around 5GB/hour. I have The School of Rock in 720p, 108 minutes, and it's about 9.6 GB.

That's about right for h.264 but there are many levels off quality depending on how much the codec crunches the numbers.

Those are MPEG 2 transport stream files. H.264 files would be much smaller for a comparable quality.

[edDV]

ATSC Broadcast MPeg2 is 12-19 Mb/s
Mpeg4 H.264 is half or somewhat less for equiv quality.

You can squeeze more but the quality drops.

[SatStorm]

D-VHS is a great alternative, but for some reason it doesn't roll on the market...

[MaxBlack]

I decided to keep HD copies of some of my TV show captures (MIT MyHD MDP-130) which, despite being edited-down to 44min from an hour, tend still to be just >DVD-5 in size.

So I bite-the-bullet and re-encode them using XviD and the original AC3 5.1 audio tracks, which makes them 900Mb-1200Mb in size. Then I burn to DVD+R.

It's a PIA because the conversions take several hours, even on my 3.2GHz P4, but they take-up about a fifth of the space, are readily archivable, and look virtually identical to the originals (only a side-by-side comparison would expose them I think).

If you are serious about wanting to save 15Mbps 1920x1080 broadcasts, I'd be inclined to buy an external drive or two to save them. Then hope/wait for the next generation of HD-DVD or Blu-ray PC drives for the ultimate solution (although the discs are likely to be expensive).

YMMV. I love "The School of Rock" but have it on DVD and wouldn't find saving an OTA HD copy to be "worth it". Some day it will be out commercially in HD (and in the Wal-Mart sale rack for $10) and then you'll wonder why you bothered to go to all the trouble...

[DVWannaB]

dont think I saw this option in this thread, but a cheap alternative is to cut the recordings into 4.2 GB sections and archive on DVD+/-R discs. You can get a movie on 4 discs and at 30 cents per disc you keep your costs down to $1.20 per movie. When Bluray or HD-DVD become available and affordable, just covert the 4-disc archive to that format. No re-encoding required and original recording quality maintained.

[rack]

dont think I saw this option in this thread, but a cheap alternative is to cut the recordings into 4.2 GB sections and archive on DVD+/-R discs. You can get a movie on 4 discs and at 30 cents per disc you keep your costs down to $1.20 per movie. When Bluray or HD-DVD become available and affordable, just covert the 4-disc archive to that format. No re-encoding required and original recording quality maintained.

By George, I think you've got it!

I like the idea of H.264, but I'm unsure what "profile" to use, and it takes a ton of energy (mine and CPU) to accomplish.

[Soopafresh]

edtv - I have yet to try their encoder. The decoder, however, is fantastic. Here's the last free version - http://rapidshare.de/files/16350088/CoreAVC.zip.html . As much as I love FFDshow for its "Swiss Army Knife" of decoders, this one has it beat by far when it comes to h264.

You can test it with this, but the difference will be immediately obvious.

http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/timeCodec.exe


Site for HiDef h264 previews - http://www.drfoster.f2s.com/


BTW, got these links from an AVSforum thread. If you like the codec, support the developers.