Recommendations On TV Tuner/Capture Card

[cornuto]

I was looking at getting a tv tuner card with S-Video capabilities so that I could eventually encode VHS to DVD. I'm not exactly sure which card to purchase. I've been reading up on it a bit and I have come to the conclusion that the Phillips chipset is better than the Connexant one. What do you guys think about this? I'm after some recommendations about which card to get because a lot of reviews I have read confuse me about which one can do the job better. I'm pretty new to all this so I don't have that much of a clue. I'm looking to spend about $150-$200AU
Thanks.

[harley2ride]

You will get quite a few different opinions about this. First you need to decide if you want to capture to AVI, DV-AVI, MPEG2, MPEG4, or multiples of these. There are many cards and external devices which will do most or all of these. Most people prefer internal cards like the Hauppage 250, then there is a new NVIDIA capture card which I've only read one review on, but it looks promising, there are the All-In-Wonder cards which some people swear by, the new ATI X1300 - X1900 video cards use ATI's AVIVO technology can capture video. Then there are the USB2.0 External devices, and External Firewire devices, which are nice if you want to share the device on multiple PC's, or a Laptop.

If you do a few simple searches in the CAPTURE forum, you will find quite a few discussions on the various devices, and peoples opinions about them.

I use an ADS PYRO AV/Link, which is a semi-professional device. However, I would not be opposed to looking into the Hauppage 250, 350, 500, or the ATI ALL-In-Wonder cards, and even some of the USB 2.0 devices have valid applications for use.

Whatever device you choose, I would find one that says it locks the audio to the video during capture. Sync issues abound in these forums. I personally have never had any.

If all you want to do is transfer your VHS to DVD, without doing alot of editing, then go with a standalone DVD Recorder. If you want to do editing, creative menus, and transisitions, you will want a card/device which will capture in AVI or DV-AVI format. If you want to do all of these, then look into devices which offer all these functions.

If you are going the PC capture route, you will want at least a 2.6ghz Pentium or athlon equiv., at least 768mb of ram, two hd's, one for software and programs, and one for storage/data, and USB2.0 or Firewire connections. Your data/storage HD should be at least 120mb

[cornuto]

Seeing as I want to make them into DVDs with my own menus, I've chosen to look for an internal tv tuner/capture card. I read somewhere that to make DVDs you need to encode it to MPEG2. What about the different chipsets that are available? Is Phillips better than Connexant or doesn't really make a difference? hardware issue is definitely not a problem.
Thanks.

[harley2ride]

I'm not very knowledgable on internal cards. From what I've read over and over in these forums, I would look into the Hauppage 250, 300, 500 series.

[jman98]

Until I saw your post, I had no idea that Philips made chipsets for video capturing cards. I couldn't find much about them. I have never heard of the only model I could find that uses them.

I can tell you that I own a Hauppauge PVR-350 and it is the best capture card I have ever owned. It can only record MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 video, which should be fine for most people. However, some folks are adamant about recording AVI video and if you're one of those, you'll need another card.

I own an old ATI All-In-Wonder card and I'm not an ATI fan because of it. Harley2ride's card records in DV format and you'll need to re-encode that to get a DVD out of it. I'm sure it's a great card, but it's probably more work than you want to do. Canopus also makes some very good capture cards I have read, but they are very expensive.

The Hauppauge PVR-250 does not offer TV out, but it is the only difference between it and the PVR-350. Not having TV out will save you some money. I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for and your price range is a little low for getting a quality video card.

Cards that do sofware encoding (ATI, for example) are the ones that usually have audio sync problems. Some research suggests that the problem may be due to issues with sound cards. It's a huge pain in the butt to deal with audio sync problems, which is a benefit of cards that do hardware video encoding such as Hauppauge. I've never had a sync problem with any video I recorded with my PVR-350.

[lordsmurf]

Do you want to do AVI work? DV work? MPEG work?

[offline]

Check out the capture card lists (left hand side menu on the front page) and check out the highest rated. Then let us know exactly what you want to do and your spending budget. There is no one all-in-one best solution.

[cornuto]

Yer i read somewhere that there are two different chipsets for video decoder cards. The conexant cx23xx chipsets are single 10bit ADC whilst the phillips 7134 chipsets are dual 9bit ADC. I think phillips chipsets capture the entire active line of video including a little of the front and back porch. but I'm not sure exactly what it meant or if it would make that much difference when encoding from VHS. Like i said i'm looking for a capture card that will encode from VHS (S-Video) to DVD (MPEG2 i think) that also has a Tv Tuner and I'm not looking to pay more than around 150-200AU. I've read the reviews of a lot of cards that are posted under the Capture Cards section on this site and there seem to be both positive and negative experiences for all. By the sounds of it Hauppauge cards dont have any audio sync problems and will do the just fine. But I've also read that DVICO are pretty good too. Just want to make sure that I purchase a quality product that will do what I want it to do without any hassles. As mentioned before hardware is not an issue, I'm running a AMD XP 3200+ with 1.5gb ram and two 300gb SATA drives.

[FulciLives]

After reading this thread and based on the comments you have made I think the Hauppauge WinTV PVR line of capture cards/devices would be the way for you to go.

If you want an internal PCI card go for the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 or the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 350 ... both are identical except the 350 adds MPEG-2 output (but does not support AC-3 audio output).

If you want a USB solution then the Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 would be the one you would want.

Please avoid the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 model as it has some unresolved issues that the above models to not have. Also the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 500 is basically just two 150's on a single card so I would also avoid that.

Anyways the Hauppauge WinTV PVR cards/devices will allow you to capture direct to MPEG-2 that is DVD compliant. You can also capture MPEG-2 that is not DVD compliant. Why would you want to do that? Well although rated at only 12,000kbps you can actually go up to a CBR of 15,000kbps with the Hauppauge cards/devices. This would give you a compressed (yes) but very high quality capture that could then be re-encoded to a MPEG-2 that is DVD compliant using filters etc. to clean up the image. This might be needed with some (poor quality) sources. Otherwise with a clean enough source you can capture direct to MPEG-2 DVD spec and be done with it.

As for A/V sync ... I would get VideoReDo Plus and run the captured file through the VideoReDo option called "QuickStream Fix" as this will correct any possible A/V sync errors you may encounter later in the process of handling the file (such as the DVD Authoring stage). It can be a bit technical as to why this step is needed but that option in VideoReDo is a bit of magic for keeping A/V sync with captured MPEG files. Not to mention that VideoReDo is one of the better (if not best) editors of MPEG files. It can edit a MPEG file without needing to re-encode the file (actually it will often re-encode a few frames around the "edit points" but that ain't no big deal).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
The only "bad" thing about the Hauppauge WinTV PVR units is that they do not like an unstable video signal. If you have a "poor" quality source (like a VHS tape at the SLP/EP speed or one with a lot of dropouts) you very well might encounter capture problems. The solution (which works really well) is to buy a Full Frame TBC but the cheapest such device is around $190 US Dollars.

A device that seems to handle unstable sources a bit better would be the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 (which is a hardware MPEG encoder like the Hauppauge units mentioned above) but this USB 2.0 device does not offer a TV tuner input nor does the included software offer more than 1 unattended scheduled recording at a time. This makes it a poor choice for recording from TV when away but from a pre-recorded source like a VHS tape I think the quality is a bit better than Hauppauge at least when it comes to unstable sources. However even the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 might need a Full Frame TBC with some sources.

[ktjensen]

Hey Fulcilives!!

I would second your recomendation for the Hauppauage WinTV PVR 250. But I would add the recommendation to buy the software Hauppauge WINGS as mentioned in other discussion threads. This will allow you to capture directly to MPEG4 files. No reconversion neccessary. MPEG4 is the smallest viable compression format for video (can be converted later).

I know I have NOT actually tried this, but it looks like others have, and have had success. You can always go from the MPEG4 format to MPEG2 with a few other tools.

Else get an ADS Instant TV Deluxe PCI card and use the included software SHOWBIZ 2. I have had a lot of good success with this software so far. No problems with capture. No problems with video/audio sync (capture to MPEG2 directly). No problems converting the resulting video to play on my IPOD, or to burn to a DVD (as long as I capture DOLBY audio, which is AC3 audio).

[ktjensen]

anyone know of where to get a used copy of an older version of VIDEOREDO? I can not afford the full price, but if someone has a registered copy they are not using (even older version) I would love to buy it from you.

Or does someone have a $20 off coupon or something? I know the manufacturer of VIDEOREDO is worth every penny, but I just can not afford this tool.

[SHS]

John the only problem that PVR 150/500 has is Loud Audio and it funny to becuaes all ATI 550 user cry about the Audio being to low and 150 can be configuration at lower vol.
All Hardware Encoder I scean to date do not like unstable video signal there is very good reason for this.

[v-sharp]

Here's another one recommending ADS Instant TV Deluxe PCI card (PTV-305).

Video/Audio synch.
MPEG2 hardware.
Records TV shows from built-in tuner or other source (VCR tuner).
Records macrovision VHS movies.
Comes with BeyondTV and ShowbizDVD capture softwares.
Price is only $50.

[jagabo]

John the only problem that PVR 150/500 has is Loud Audio

Did they fix the over-bright white level problem?

[Abbadon]

Hi there,

There is a very good card which comes with two conexant chips onboard, a tuner and a mpeg hardware encoder. No heat problems while encoding in real time.

Its commercial name is Creator TV-MCE 200 Deluxe and comes with a copy of Intervideo Home Theatre.

I currently own it and it works very well with an application called ChrisTV, it costs US$75.72 ( No shipping included )

You may find it here:

http://www.provantage.com/kworld-kw-tvmp2rf1~7KWRD002.htm

[Abbadon]

Hello again,

I noticed you asked about cards using the Phillips chips. I had a bad experience a couple of years ago with a simple card built on one of these chips. I must say that conexant is more experienced in this field, I have owned several cards that used conexant and love them.

The Expert Hardware mpeg card I mentioned earlier contains a MPEG I/II encoder chip originally not developed by conexant, but after its acquisition, conexant made several improvements to it, due to this, the chip does not need a heatsink and consumes less energy.

I know all this could sound trivial, but I think it is worth to mention it

[A_51]

If you are not going to do frame accurate editing you might want to consider a separate DVR. Video cuality is as good or better that pc capture card on MPEG. You can always reathor the menu on your PC with one of your liking and if you want to edit you can use wonble MPEG editor or I use also Magix editor. That is ofcourse if is MPEG, for DV or AVI you are better of with a PC card.

[FulciLives]

John the only problem that PVR 150/500 has is Loud Audio

Did they fix the over-bright white level problem?

To the best of my knowledge this is still a problem.

I first heard about the audio FINALLY being fixed about two weeks ago.

That is nice ... but the card is still flawed due to the "too bright" issue.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Lou71]

FulciLives wrote

Please avoid the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 model as it has some unresolved issues

That is nice ... but the card is still flawed due to the "too bright" issue

I have had a PVR 150 for a little over a year. Initially I had the too white issue, and super loud audio. After some driver updates about 6 - 8 months ago the white issue was resolved, at least on my machine.
The audio volume levels got a lot more normal around that time as well, however there was some distortion introduced, cant remember which driver #.
The last few driver updates have had much better audio, without any "bright white issues".

I also have a Toshiba D-R4, I would rate the Happauge very,very close behind the Toshiba in picture quality. In Fact I would pick the Hauppauge over a LOT of DVD recorders that I have seen ( Pre ES20 Panasonics, Sony, and for sure before some of the cheapies like Cyberhome, etc.... )

I will attest to the pic quality of capping at 12000 - 15000 CBR then reencoding in Procoder, Awesome quality, zero blocks even in very fast action.


One problem I found with the Hauppauge though was the default Noise reduction was set too high with Temporal set at 8. I reduced it to 3-4 and really liked the improvement in clarity.


Also I found the default Proc Amp levels were a little off.

To solve that I ran a DVD Home Theatre Calibration Disc from my DVD player directly into the Hauppauge to make the proper adjustments with the Hauppauge tweeker, you can also use Graphedit.
After I calibrating the PVR 150, there was a noticeable increase in quality.

I would agree that it can use some TBC help with poor sources, but then again almost all capture cards need some help in that area.

I run all my VHS sources though the Toshiba D-R4, (as it has very solid TBC ability), to the Hauppauge at 12000-15000 CBR. then apply any necessary filters and reencode at the target bit rate in Procoder or Tmpgenc Express. Overnight job.

As you well know it ignores copy protection, if you want to backup your commecial VHS collection without having to rely on a Sima type product or spring for bigger bucks on a Datavideo or AVT - 8710.

I am very happy with this card in both quality and flexibility and would certainly not clasify it as a POS.

[SHS]

I'm petty that too bright issue was fix John which I think had something to do with Problematic Macrovision ColorStriping detection that very rare case with side effect.
Just like the very rare side effect bug diagonally line in picture which is being address on PVR 500.

[ktjensen]

Here's another one recommending ADS Instant TV Deluxe PCI card (PTV-305).

Video/Audio synch.
MPEG2 hardware.
Records TV shows from built-in tuner or other source (VCR tuner).
Records macrovision VHS movies.
Comes with BeyondTV and ShowbizDVD capture softwares.
Price is only $50.

I have a slight problem with this card. The card works. It is just that the capture is to MPEG2 at a 5GB per two hours rate, with no way to adjust this capture rate down. The resulting file can be converted with the SHOWBIZ software to slower stream rates. Has anyone else had success at slower capture rates? I would love to try some other capture software, but nothing besides the SHOWBIZ 2 software seems to even know this card exists, and can capture to MPEG2 files directly. This card is still the most cost effective solution (at around $50), just need to transcode later (which I hate to do).

Talked to the ADS vendor tech support guy. They answered the phone, and are extremely competant and helpful (no one else does this, but they did!!). He admitted that the SHOWBIZ software might lock the capturing rate for MPEG2 video at 5G per two hours (which he said was pretty good!!), but also mentioned that they had the PVR INSTANT TV software, and the BEYOND TV software that could do captures (trial version will only turn off the program guide), and might be more flexible. Just need to try them.

[ktjensen]

Hi there,

There is a very good card which comes with two conexant chips onboard, a tuner and a mpeg hardware encoder. No heat problems while encoding in real time.

Its commercial name is Creator TV-MCE 200 Deluxe and comes with a copy of Intervideo Home Theatre.

I currently own it and it works very well with an application called ChrisTV, it costs US$75.72 ( No shipping included )

You may find it here:

http://www.provantage.com/kworld-kw-tvmp2rf1~7KWRD002.htm

This is a KWORLD device, and that company has been doing video for a few years. I have used an earlier model for a few years with success, until I messed up the drivers, and never got it working again. If anyone buys this device, then give us reports Good or Bad on your successes or failure with it.

[Abbadon]

Hello ktjensen,


I purchased this card like a year ago for just US$56.00 at Tiger Direct, it was intended only for Windows Media Crap Edition at that time, so I downloaded the updated drivers from the manufacturer website to avoid problems with Windows XP.

I use ChrisTV to record VHS movies and TV Shows directly to mpeg, by disabling preview, the CPU is not used while encoding.

The card is quite small compared to most TV cards out there, and does not require a heatsink. Its design is called “BlackBird” and uses the conexant CX23416 chip

http://www.conexant.com/servlets/DownloadServlet/102074B.pdf?FileId=996

If I wish to burn to DVD, I edit the resulting file using an application called mpeg-vcr and finally TMPG DVD Author.

[GeekFunk]

I know that you were seeking recommendations for capture cards, but here's an alternative that has worked well for me in converting VHS tapes to DVDs.

I've found it easy to use a miniDV camcorder with analog video-in, and digital video out via 1394 connection to the computer. The VHS taped video in the VCR is sent via analog connection to the miniDV camcorder where it is converted to digital video, sent to the computer over a 1394 connection, and then is recorded on the computer's hard drive in digital form. Virtually no video quality is lost in the conversion.

Once on the hard drive, there are numerous software apps that can burn the digital video in various formas to a DVD: two are Nero and Intervideo WinDVD Creaor, which is what I use.

You might have gotten some software with your DVD burner.

Note that not all miniDV camcorders can convert analog to digital on-the-fly in a "pass through" to a hard drive. Some might require that you record from a VCR to a miniDV tape in the camcorder, then record from the tape to the hard drive. So, it is important that you examine the camcorder manual closely if you are looking for a miniDV camcorder that can do this.

Of course, your computer must have a 1394 port.

[AlecWest]

Please avoid the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 model as it has some unresolved issues that the above models to not have.

Hmmm ... I've used a PVR-150 for some time now and haven't experienced any "issues." But, I've only used it to capture TV and some VCR or DVD player inputs. What issues should I be aware of? Thanks.

[FulciLives]

Please avoid the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 model as it has some unresolved issues that the above models to not have.

Hmmm ... I've used a PVR-150 for some time now and haven't experienced any "issues." But, I've only used it to capture TV and some VCR or DVD player inputs. What issues should I be aware of? Thanks.

Check out the forums over at ... http://www.shspvr.com/

I bought one (which was returned after a week or two) from Circuit City back around August of 2005.

At the time it had an audio problem (the audio using the Line In would be "too hot" and oversaturated and/or clipped ... the RF input did not have this problem).

The other issue was "hot bright" spots on any "bright" areas of the video. It was most noticeable of course when the scene was mostly white or had a lot of white areas.

I've heard the audio issue was recently fixed (more than 1 year after the product came to the market).

SHS claims the "too bright" issue is fixed but I know people that still experience this phenomena even with the newest set of drivers.

The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250/350/USB2 all seem to work very similiar and most importantly without any of the issues that the Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 has.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[The_Doman]

At the time it had an audio problem (the audio using the Line In would be "too hot" and oversaturated and/or clipped ... the RF input did not have this problem).
.......
I've heard the audio issue was recently fixed (more than 1 year after the product came to the market).

Yes the audio problem was fixed to behave more normal (no clipping and AGC) a few months ago, also the input levels can now be adjusted with the proper register adjustments tricks.
Still incredible it took that long to get things fixed properly , wasting over a year with this issue.
(Still it is very cumbersome because you need to reboot the whole system for every volume adjustement )
Fact is most normal (less demanding) people are not that critical and will think the audio is ok for them.

SHS claims the "too bright" issue is fixed but I know people that still experience this phenomena even with the newest set of drivers.

Nothing has been "fixed" really because they still have no clue what was/is the problem with the "too much white" or "overexposed" issue some users still have.
I had the white problem too, but at the moment it seems ok for me..

Ofcours the card is relative cheap and I have it nicely working with my setup here to record from Cable TV. (using ONLY s-VIDEO source!)

But in my opinion the PVR150 (and 500) card is not the best option for digitizing VHS tapes.
The results depend a lot on the quality of the used VCR playback equipment.
Some recordings can cause stability problems in certain cases.
Ofcourse it does not mean it won't work, just be prepared some for possible issues you can encounter when you are going to use the PVR150 for that purpose.
If you want to convert a lot of analog stuff in good quality you almost need some form of TBC in your digitizing process for good results.
Because of that I use for my VHS conversions the analog inputs of my DVD8 Camcorder.. 8)

Also you could consider a good DVD(HD) recorder, preferable with a TBC function built in.

Here are some more (older) links about capturing analog video and the Hauppauge PVR cards.
SHSPVR Topic: WinTV PVR-150 video capture issue
SHSPVR Topic: I am SOOO CONFUSED! Please help me!
SHSPVR Topic: Hi8 tape causes PVR-150 picture break-up
SHSPVR Topic: Video Capture Jittery
SHSPVR Topic: PVR350 Skipping Frames ?! How can this Happen ? What to do ?