Permission to use video request

[44echo]

Can anyone tell me what things should be included in a request to use video? I've taken video of some bands and there is starting to be more interest by fans. If I were to ask the bands for permission to sell the video, what should I include in the request?

Thanks.

[retiredjoker]

The most important part of that letter and probably the only one they care about is "how much are they going to get out of it."

[ozymango]

I have videotaped and audiotaped a few concerts of a fairly major folk musician (name withheld because I'm behind on my CD trading!), and first thing I would recommend to you in regards to any recording (audio and/or video) of any musician is to contact his, her, or their manager. He or she is most likely the primary contact when it comes to the "rights" of what you can or can't do as far as recording and/or trading of any music by the band.

It's also much easier to contact a manager re any of this stuff because that's one reason bands have managers -- to deal with technical and financial stuff like this. And every band is going to have different requirements for usage of their work, so there's no global list of what you need to do to get permission, except "contact their manager!"

That being said, when you say "sell" in regards to any of your recordings, you are entering contract negotiations level stuff -- in most cases, if you're lucky, a musician or band may agree to recording of shows for personal and private use only ... or, at most, to "no money exchanges hands" trading of shows on CD ("authorized bootlegs"). In my own case, it's cool to trade audio CDs of this musician as long as no $$$ is involved, beyond the actual costs of materials and postage.

If you intend to make any profit off of this, then you pretty much move instantly into "need to pay royalties to the musicians" level, which most likely would involved some kind of contract with the group. Again, contacting their manager is your best bet in regards to this because he or she most likely already has a list of what rights are available for how many $$$ or percentage of sales or whatever. If you're very, very lucky, the manager may make a special excemption for you (in terms of authorizing recordings for "sale") if your work is of the level where the band could use it in advertisting, promotions, or other such stuff. Or if they're all really super wonderful generous people.

Good luck!

[kschang]

And seriously consider having a lawyer, if just to look over the contract to be sure neither sideis being cheated or have any oop-sies.

[stantheman1976]

I really don't know how well a request to sell recorded performances would go unless the act is relatively small and not part of an organized record company. Like the others said, contact the management of the artist (if they have a manager). I would also consider the possiblility of offering them the master tape(s) and dubbing a clone for yourself.

[zoobie]

To me, there's 2 owners of any performance video. The performer and the cameraman.

Try offering your footage to them for free if you can get permission to sell it.

Being a muse myself, I'm sure their egos will kick in very soon.

[adam]

Heh, to Uncle Sam there's only one owner and that is the author of the musical work. Seriously, you have no ownership in the recording of the band's performance. The second you hit record that tape legally belongs to the band. I would not try to use it to bargain with. Its theirs and if they want they can just make you give it to them.

As others have said all you can really do is contact the manager and try to negotiate a deal. He/she will tell you what you need to do.

[zoobie]

well, by being muses, they probably don't know that...heh heh

[44echo]

This whole situation kinda falls back on https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=282089&highlight= this thread. None of these bands have managers or are signed with major labels. They are mechanics, businessmen, college students, etc who play music on the weekends. 95% of the music is covering other bands that I'm sure they did not get permission to play. These are polka bands. Everyone plays everyone elses songs and there are no contracts/agreements to do so. I know. I used to play. Some are country "favorites" that are adapted to a 2-4 beat to be played as a polka. By the letter of the law, it's probably illegal. I'll probably find out for sure, but I'd guess that the musicians would be more interested to know that the music is being promoted than trying to make a buck off off music that they don't have rights to in the first place.

I won't be getting rich off this by any means. All I'm looking for is to get a little something for my time/materials/postage. I'm kinda doing this half-assed. I mean really, why should I ask permission from a person who doesn't have the right to give it? At the same time, I at least want to make an attempt at "doing the right thing."

I planned on mailing the band leader a form to sign that gives me permission to sell the video on DVD to cover my operating costs. I had no intention of paying them royalties unless they asked. If they chose not to sign it, that's up to them.

I was thinking along the lines of...

"I, _______, give permission to 44echo to sell the video of the ________ band for the purpose of covering his operating expenses. I authorize the sale of the video for a period of ____ years. I reserve the right to preview the video to ensure it casts the band in a positive light. Upon giving written notice to 44echo, I also reserve the right to stop the sale of the video at any time if certain circumstances arise."

Signed_________
Date __________

What do you think?

[zoobie]

oh...I thought these were original songs...since they're not, they're probably already copywritten...protected against manufacturing and distribution

yes...technically, these bands are supposed to be paying royalties since (I assume) they're getting gigs and being paid for performing these songs

like you said...no need to ask permission from someone who doesn't own the rights...so why would you mail some doofus that form?

[adam]

You still need to ask the cover band's permission to sell the video because for all you know, they do have the rights to perform those songs (all it takes is permission which is exactly what you are seeking) which means that the recording of it belongs to them, even though the song belongs to the original author of the music.

And ultimately you are always going to have to have permission from the author of the musical work itself. If you don't have this then what you are doing is copyright infringement. Maybe you'll get away with it maybe you won't. I can imagine how annoying it would be to get permission from maybe 20 different authors who are being covered, but that's how copyrights work. You write a song, you have ultimate control over every performance of it.

[zoobie]

you could be right...but 99% of the time, the song is just performed live without permission...."covers" as it were

permission is equal to about $75 per song if I recall...then you can legally go hog wild

now for the images of the band...

overall, this is one big legal hairy fuzzy area of media production and distribution and should be cleared up

[44echo]

You still need to ask the cover band's permission to sell the video

That's why I started this thread.

oh...I thought these were original songs...since they're not, they're probably already copywritten...protected against manufacturing and distribution

It varies from band to band. Some do more originals than others. I record the performance for the night so I have original and covers in the same recording.

Any comments on my remedial "contract?"

[ozymango]

Any comments on my remedial "contract?"

Personally, I think it's fine -- it'll be up to each band of course to decide if they want to agree to it, or amend it in any way. Although if your band doesn't have a manager (or a member who acts as some kind of manager), you're gonna need the signatures of all the band members -- and good luck on that, I've rarely been in a situation that involves a group of people where all the people agreed on anything!

Also there might be a sticky-wicket with song rights if you actually end up selling these at anything resembling a profit -- ASCAP and BMI, the groups that represent songwriters and royalties on covering of copywritten music, can be rather serious when it comes to royalties collections if they find out about you. I know, some of my musician friends got "busted" at a concert once (rock covers, fairly well known pop music) for playing a certain performer's stuff without getting permission to cover it (including paying royalties). It was only a few bucks, but it was a bit startling, so much fuss over three songs! But these were pretty popular pop songs and they were in a club that gets frequented by music industry types, so there is that. Nevertheless, the way things are going with the recording industry's sensitivity to music rights, it never hurts to be super careful.

[bits]

44echo wrote:

I won't be getting rich off this by any means. All I'm looking for is to get a little something for my time/materials/postage. I'm kinda doing this half-assed. I mean really, why should I ask permission from a person who doesn't have the right to give it? At the same time, I at least want to make an attempt at "doing the right thing."

Diminishing returns! It seems like it is more hassle and risk that it is worth!

[ozymango]

Diminishing returns! It seems like it is more hassle and risk that it is worth!

Yeah, but can you put a price on what a boost this is to your ego when somebody likes one of your videos? Seriously, having done this myself more than a few times (again with just the one folk singer), after a while it does easily get to the point where it stops being fun and turns into "oh crap what happened to the five copies I burned to send out today?"