newbie question about using iso image to make a DVD backup

[jimdagys]

I understand that an iso image copy is an exact bit for bit copy of the original DVD. Then my question is, it seems that you should be able to back up any DVD by making an iso image, regardless of the type of encryption on the original DVD, and then burn the image to a double layer DVD disk. I am correct in this? Then why is it necessary to have all this decrypting software?

[waheed]

The ISO image contains all the data required for the DVD Video burning. It does NOT contain encryption. No DVDR can possibly burn the encryption with it. CSS keys cannot be burnt onto DVDRs.

When ISO images are created from the original DVD, the DVD is decrypted and the ISO made, otherwise (as the whole point of encryption) you wouldn't be able to copy it.

[soneman]

I understand that an iso image copy is an exact bit for bit copy of the original DVD. Then my question is, it seems that you should be able to back up any DVD by making an iso image, regardless of the type of encryption on the original DVD, and then burn the image to a double layer DVD disk. I am correct in this? Then why is it necessary to have all this decrypting software?

Just to reiterate, the ISO image contains all the data and the file structure of the original DVD minus the encryption.

Programs like DVD Decrypter and DVDFab Decrypter carry out this task.

Once you have your ISO image on your Hard Drive (without the encryption), you can then decide to:

a) use DVD Shrink to compress the image so that it fits onto a single layer DVD-R or;

b) burn the ISO image as it is (without encryption or any compression) onto a dual layer DVD+R.

[psx_pirate]

I understand that an iso image copy is an exact bit for bit copy of the original DVD. Then my question is, it seems that you should be able to back up any DVD by making an iso image, regardless of the type of encryption on the original DVD, and then burn the image to a double layer DVD disk. I am correct in this? Then why is it necessary to have all this decrypting software?

Just to reiterate, the ISO image contains all the data and the file structure of the original DVD minus the encryption.

Programs like DVD Decrypter and DVDFab Decrypter carry out this task.

Once you have your ISO image on your Hard Drive (without the encryption), you can then decide to:

a) use DVD Shrink to compress the image so that it fits onto a single layer DVD-R or;

b) burn the ISO image as it is (without encryption or any compression) onto a dual layer DVD+R.

yes ... that is correct

[jimdagys]

Thanks for the answers. Ok, it seems that according to what you say, an iso image in NOT an exact bit for bit copy of the original. As you say, the css keys don't get copied with an iso image copy. Actually, I don't really understand that part. Why can't someone make an iso copy that copies EXACTLY the bit for bit of the original (including the css keys)?

[lordsmurf]

You're missing the point. You cannot read or copy the encryption. That's why it's encrypted.

[jtoolman2000]

Think of it as invisible. Don't even concern yourself with it. What is the importand "BIT" (data)? The video ( what you see ) and the audio ( what you hear ) so if you rip the disc completely to an ISO as with DVD Decrypter or DVDShrink ( Maybe running the very latest ANYDvd in the background to take care of any new studio tricks) you will basically, for all intents and purposes end up with a "Bit for Bit" copy. This copy however, will probably be too large to fit a comon DVD-+r so you will have to transcode of re-encode it to a smaller size. The result usually though not always results in a degraded video image.

The best thing is to chuck the useless menus and extras and just backup the movie and one single audio track. Chances are it will rip to less that a dvd/5 size or you might have to still shrink it a bit to make it fit.

I have compressed to about 75 to 80% using deep analisys and Shrink's other filters and can hardly see the diference on my Toshiba 52 DLP HDTV. Of course I prefer no compression at all but most of the time that simply means that the studio already compressed it to let allow room for all the other crap studios insist to cram on our store bought DVDs

It's really a give and take and usually you simply cannot have it both ways. If it fits, it's probably already compressed and will look average. If it is a good looking 6 gig encode, you will have to shrink it and there you go again.

[jimmalenko]

Thanks for the answers. Ok, it seems that according to what you say, an iso image in NOT an exact bit for bit copy of the original. As you say, the css keys don't get copied with an iso image copy. Actually, I don't really understand that part. Why can't someone make an iso copy that copies EXACTLY the bit for bit of the original (including the css keys)?

You're missing the point. Completely. The CSS side of things is a hardware issue / "feature", and it is only possible to put these onto a disc using a pressing machine - a DVD burner cannot do it. An ISO image is an exact, bit for bit copy of the original as far as the audio / video / subtitles are concerned. So by limitation of technology, it cannot be done by the "average" user. But then consider why you'd want to retain the encryption when you can easily just rip to an ISO image and remove it ???

[jimdagys]

Thanks again for all the answers. So the encyption keys can only be "pressed" on the disk - a consumer home DVD burner can't do it.
Actually, I don't even have a DVD burner yet, but I have learned a lot of newbie info by reading these forums. Ok, I have another question. I understand that you can use Norton Ghost or some other program to get an image of your c drive and then you can burn this image to a cd. So if your hard drive completely quits, then (I guess) you could use the cd to put your windows on another computer. My question is, then why would anybody buy windows? If anybody can copy windows and install it on another computer, then it seems that nobody would ever need to buy windows.

[jimmalenko]

My question is, then why would anybody buy windows? If anybody can copy windows and install it on another computer, then it seems that nobody would ever need to buy windows.

Because that's what Microsoft tell us we must do

The ghosting process copies everything - partition sizes, directories and files, configuration options ... specific to your install of windows on that machine. There's quite a number of drivers that either windows installed or you installed post-windows install for specific hardware you have in your computer, such as mobo, and/or possibly video / sound / any othe PCI cards you may have on your PC. Should you try to restore a ghost image to be put into a different computer with (presumably) different hardware, it's likely to be more of a pain than it's worth, having to uninstall any drivers that are now not required, or possibly conflict with your new hardware. Much easier to just pull out your XP CD and do a fresh install for your new PC. Cloning is only "useful" should just your hard drive die and you're putting a new hard drive back into the same PC.

But even Microsoft allow for each user to use their copy of XP on any one machine at any one time, such that should you replace your PC, you can retain your copy of XP and put it on your new machine provided you remove it from your old one. So Microsoft's logic is that you really only need to buy XP once.

[guns1inger]

Also, remember that XP requires activation. The activation code is based, to a large degree, on the hardware combination of your PC. Not just that it has a 200GB HDD, but it has a specific serial number, manufacturer etc. So simply restoring to another PC of similar configuration won't necessarily work. It may well simply start the activation process up again. Which means going back to Microsoft.

[psx_pirate]

take the hdd from your pc and put it in a new pc (as the boot drive) and try booting up this pc ... you will be lucky if you make it to the welcome screen ... the drivers on the hdd will conflict with the hardware of the new pc ... so using ghost to copy windows to use on different pc's quite simply won't work ... you have to do a fresh install from disk

[jimdagys]

Ok, so I can't easily put the ghost image on another computer. But if my hard drive completely dies and I buy a new hard drive and then try to put the ghost image back in the original computer, is it necessary to "activate" or register to get windows to work? And can someone recommend some info that I can read to learn how to do this (capture image of windows on my computer, and then install this image back into the new hard drive so the computer actually works)?

[jimmalenko]

Ok, so I can't easily put the ghost image on another computer. But if my hard drive completely dies and I buy a new hard drive and then try to put the ghost image back in the original computer, is it necessary to "activate" or register to get windows to work?

Shouldn't be required.

And can someone recommend some info that I can read to learn how to do this (capture image of windows on my computer, and then install this image back into the new hard drive so the computer actually works)?

Depends on what you're planning on using. Norton Ghost is very popular for this line of work. Another one is Acronis TrueImage. Whatever the case, the manual that comes with the software you're using, the support forums of the software and/or google are your friends here.

[whitejremiah]

My question is, then why would anybody buy windows? If anybody can copy windows and install it on another computer, then it seems that nobody would ever need to buy windows.

people would and do buy windows for a few reasons...first off, for the AVERAGE person, it will come preinstalled, no matter what you do anyhow (note, i said average, as in joe schmoe who does not know how to build a computer) secondly, at least as of late, they have started adding security features in their updates and such to disallow useage of multiple computers using the same copy of windows..or at least the same windows key....on a side note, MS borderline condones copying of windows discs in some cases...such as slipstreaming the latest service packs so next time you have to do an install, you dont have to download hundreds of MB of updates from them.......particularly helps them as far as people who go and reinstall windows every few months (i personally try to avoid that if at all possible...its a pain in my opinion, but there are people that do it) and back to the main topic...even IF there were software available that was able to do 1:1 copies, including CSS and all, there would still be decrypting software around, because there are some people who dont like to just straight copy discs......compressing video to divx or vcd/svcd are a few examples of just that....unfortunately (for the companies) every copy protection out thus far for dvd's can be broken by one method or another....they try and put copy protection measures in place to prevent piracy, however at the same time, it also prevents joe schmoe from copying a dvd and filing the original one away to prevent damage to it....i can see where they are coming from, but honestly i dont see why they still put copy protection on dvd's...until they can find a method that takes THEM a long time to get around (i'm talking a few months of testing...at which point HD-DVD/blu ray will be at least started so its pointless anyhow) they shouldnt even bother with the weak forms of protection that they have.....it can in some cases (ive noticed it with some late sony dvd's using that ARCoss or whatever its called) actually make the viewing experiance WORSE on the original disc than with a backup copy...particularly a dual layer disc....they insert a bunch of fake errors which can make a dvd act kinda funny..video will play back slightly choppy, ect....

[jimdagys]

Thanks for all the info. I am in China and if you go to the computer stores, there are two types of software (like Windows xp, Photoshop, Corel Draw, etc) you can buy. One kind is the "authentic" program. "Authentic" is the word the Chinese use. "Authentic" is in contrast to "pirate", again their words. "Authentic" software costs about one dollar, no matter what kind of software you buy. When the "software police" come, which happens from time to time in China, the "authentic" software remains on the store shelves. However, the "pirate" software (which costs 50 cents per disk no matter what kind), is quickly removed by the store workers and hidden away until the "software police" leave, usually in about an hour. The whole thing is a ruse of Chinese "face", something that is totally foreign to Western cultures. In this way, everybody is satisfied. The Chinese Government is satisfied because they are taking "active measures" to eliminate piracy. The syndicates and stores that make and sell software are happy because their profitable business essentally continues unhappered. And lastly, the Chinese peasant, the woman with two babies strapped to her back, is happy, because she is usually the one who actually sells you the software, even though she has never touched a computer in her life.

[waheed]

"Authentic" software costs about one dollar, no matter what kind of software you buy.

I find that hard to believe.

[offline]

http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1540,1875016,00.asp

Cost for Windows falls—to 50 cents—in China
By Maria Trombly, Ziff Davis Internet and Bill Marcus

Despite three years of attention by lawmaking committees and a steadily increasing roster of laws protecting intellectual property, China is a shopper's paradise for all things pirated—handbags, jewelry, movie DVDs, and, of course, software.
Vendors pushing wheelbarrows piled with CDs offer Windows 98, 2000 and XP for as little as 4 yuan—just 50 cents. A slightly higher-quality product is available from tiny, hole-in-the wall storefronts. There, a copy of the software still in its original packaging—or what looks like original packaging – is available for 18 yuan, or $2.25. Still a bargain.

"I want more Chinese to use the software and to get to know the advanced technology of the United States," explained the salesman.

That's one way of looking at intellectual property rights, one that can cause problems for U.S. companies doing business both with Chinese partners and with their own subsidiaries staffed with native Chinese. It's not unusual to find pirated software in American-affiliated companies, even when company policy forbids it.

That is one of the major complaints of the Business Software Alliance, whose members include Microsoft, Intel, Cisco and other major technology firms.

The BSA estimates that 90 percent of all software sold in China is pirated. That translates to more than $3.5 billion in lost revenues for the software makers. Only one country, the United States, is ahead of China when it comes to lost revenues.

Not all the pirates would have bought legal copies of the software if the pirated versions had not been available, of course, but enough would have to add up to some significant losses.

In a survey of 450 members released this month, the American Chambers of Commerce in Shanghai and Beijing reported that 80 percent of respondents said that China's IP protection efforts were ineffective. US companies want to see China show some strong national leadership and dedicate capital and resources to intellectual property protection, the Chambers reported.

Both the Chinese and US governments claim they are paying attention to this issue.

In April, the US Trade Representative's office placed China on the Priority Watch List necessitating "special review" of China's computer software piracy policing efforts.

Chinese Commerce Vice Minister Zhang Zhigang expressed "deep regrets" over the designation. "There are still a few problems in China's IPR protection, but we are paying attention to these problems and solving them one after another," Zhang said.

While Chamber report credited China for three years of legislative progress in the right direction, both the document and chamber officials expressed disappointment with China's IP enforcement efforts.

Stores sell fake goods "with seemingly no fear of meaningful legal or pecuniary penalties," the report said. Raids and awareness campaigns merely interrupt the practice. "This recidivism creates the impression that Chinese national leadership lacks the will to stop counterfeiting and piracy."

Credible criminal sanctions are needed to deter exports of pirated goods which have increased steadily over the past five years since China's entry into the World Trade Organization, the chambers said.

"We want to see more action," said Zhu Nongfan, an attorney in corporate practice who serves as Chairman of the American Chambers of Commerce subcommittee on IP issues.

IP violations are even taking a personal toll on American business executives in china.

"People go home early," said Shanghai-based psychologist Glen Blair. Blair's said he's seen Western families burnt out by pirates leave on a day's notice. Armed with ideas and idealism businessmen feel betrayed by the Chinese they think they have come to manage, he said.

Others adjust. Some, by going over the dark side. Even foreign CEOs can be found who have loaded up on cheap pirated software.

"When I need new software in China, I go any of the cybermarts and at first they claim they don't have it, then after a while, they always say they do," said a Western businessman in Shanghai who produces custom manufactured goods and exports it to the West.