Will we ever be able to control onscreen tv graphics??

[yoda313]

Now that digital tv is a reality and home receivers are able to process the signals will we ever be able to control the onscreen graphics???

I'd love to be able to block the network logo and all the annoying popup graphics that plague tv.

I know the networks will never give up the control but would there be realtime software solutions??? Or is the graphic forever hardcoded into the broadcast?????

[lumis]

a few months ago i was watching a football game when the graphics machine crashed (you could see it glitch out).. all that was left was a small semi-transparent "NFL on FOX" logo in the upper right hand corner of the screen.. it was really nice being able to watch the game without the score, down & distance & other game scores taking up a portion of the top of the screen.. and also not having a scroller on the bottom telling me the stats/scores of the other games..

it was just a beautiful unmolested HD picture..

as far as being able to control the graphics, no, i dont think it will ever happen. networks like having pop-ups and annoying network logo's.. the most annoying are the one's telling you what program you're watching.. FX also has a pretty annoying one for "nip/tuck", it takes up 1/3rd of the screen and there is a big "wooosh" sound..

i never really minded the network logo's, but these popups are annoying as hell..

a few years ago i used to download futurama episodes from an IRC channel.. they were released prior to the actual broadcast time.. usually saturday morning (broadcast was sunday night)..

the cool thing was that there were no logos, popups or even a network logo.. one of the guys i talked to in the channel told me that the person who released them was able to pick up on the transmission to the local station, which apparently came without any type of "ad-graphics".. the quality was pretty amazing.. it was encoded to SVCD, but it looked like a dvdrip.

[non-linear]

a few years ago i used to download futurama episodes from an IRC channel.. they were released prior to the actual broadcast time.. usually saturday morning (broadcast was sunday night)..

the cool thing was that there were no logos, popups or even a network logo.. one of the guys i talked to in the channel told me that the person who released them was able to pick up on the transmission to the local station, which apparently came without any type of "ad-graphics".. the quality was pretty amazing.. it was encoded to SVCD, but it looked like a dvdrip.

Most likely that was the analog satellite feed that FOX TOC (Technical Operations Center) would feed for Canadian broadcast on Global (the network in Canada who had the rights to the show), so there was probably a slate and clean blacks in between segments. FOX now sends most, if not all feeds on an encrypted digital feed.

[yoda313]

FOX now sends most, if not all feeds on an encrypted digital feed.

That must be the cable/sat feeds because I can record my local fox digital OTA station no problem on my fusion 3 hdtv card.

[non-linear]

That must be the cable/sat feeds because I can record my local fox digital OTA station no problem on my fusion 3 hdtv card.

I'm referring to the C-Band satellite feeds, which are used for feeding programming to other stations (in many cases, for Canadian broadcasters) as well as feeding promo material to other FOX affiliates. Also, I believe the C-band feeds that FOX send to their affiliates is encrypted as well. I was not referring to the actual affiliate stations in my last post.

[yoda313]

Oh ok.

[Craig Tucker]

Thankfully we dont have all that shit on our screens over here, and I really hope it stays that way.

[yoda313]

Thankfully we dont have all that shit on our screens over here, and I really hope it stays that way.

Damn your lucky.

[Doramius]

In the US the feed is RAW or untampered from the way it's given to them, the network would place their junk on it, but not all (IE: scores & stats for sporting events, etc.). The logo and other such popups (some transparent & others not) are most frequently put in locally, even if it's a network station. Reason being is some of the local stations may be on a timezone crossing, or they are an independent station that pays to have a network feed at certain times of the day (usually news/sportcasts).

Again, this isn't always the case, but that's how it it done more often than not. When the feed was analog, some people could grab the signal in it's entirety as a RAW signal before it hit local stations (generally not by legal methods). There are still a small few (more like a handful in remote areas) stations that have not upgraded to digital receivers and still receive an analog signal from a larger parent station in a more urban area (I visited one of these smaller stations in the badlands of South Dakota). Depending on what the sister station is sending, sometimes you get no annoying bits if you grab the RAW signal. If you do get anything, it's usually only the transparent logo.

Everything else is pretty much sent digitally and encrypted. The parent stations have cheap conversion equipment to send the analog signal to the smaller rural stations. And even then, many parent stations have given free digital equipment to the smaller stations, because they can stop sending a RAW analog signal that can be tapped. Canada isn't as heavily pushed into the digital signal medium like the US, so it would be very easy for someone in Canada to capture a nice RAW signal and make a clear DVD.

[Craig Tucker]

Everything is about ratings right ? If a station made it policy and made it a selling point, to get rid of all the crap which spoils watching the shows off their screens, I bet their ratings would soar.

[Doramius]

They'd probably offer that for a premium price. So not only will they get soaring rating, but they make a few more bucks doing it.

I remember when cable had no commercials. I also remember when analog cable had excellent signal & connection. The sad thing is that knowingly, some of the cable companies have purposefully degraded some of the analog signals slowly over time to encourage people to go digital. That's a bunch of Bulls**t.

[lumis]

The sad thing is that knowingly, some of the cable companies have purposefully degraded some of the analog signals slowly over time to encourage people to go digital. That's a bunch of Bulls**t.

i thought it was just me.. i had cable about 6 or 7 years ago, and about 6 months ago i purchased analog cable and the picture was horrid compared to how i remembered it.. after 1 month i cancelled the cable and went to dishnetwork.. the picture quality is a lot better, but still not great..

[non-linear]

In the US the feed is RAW or untampered from the way it's given to them, the network would place their junk on it, but not all (IE: scores & stats for sporting events, etc.). The logo and other such popups (some transparent & others not) are most frequently put in locally, even if it's a network station. Reason being is some of the local stations may be on a timezone crossing, or they are an independent station that pays to have a network feed at certain times of the day (usually news/sportcasts).

Just curious, which networks run lower thirds locally? I know for a fact that WB stations (the network feed is operated from LA by Global Digital Media Xchange), and I've seen their digital feeds, and they add all lower third graphics at their end. I know that some local affiliates add additional local lower thirds, like WPIX in New York will run one for news, as well some locals will run a local bug in addition to the WB network logo. WB also sometimes provides a clean feed in advance for the secondary affiliates. I've also seen the NBC digital feed, and they also run all the bugs and lower thirds at the network source.

Everything else is pretty much sent digitally and encrypted. The parent stations have cheap conversion equipment to send the analog signal to the smaller rural stations. And even then, many parent stations have given free digital equipment to the smaller stations, because they can stop sending a RAW analog signal that can be tapped.

I never quite understood why the networks feel so threatened by having their network feeds in the clear. I think one of the big motivating factors to switching to digital for feeding program material (mainly for Canadian broadcasters) is because in the past, as been established earlier in the post about Futurama, is that programming could be viewed and shared before the actual broadcast, and without any bugs, commercials and other junk. Of course, these clean versions would wind up on the net. This has been a pain for Canadian broadcasters because instead of being able to pick up a program feed on analog C-band (or even KU-band), they had to buy digital receivers for the different providers (like FOX, Buena Vista TV, WB, NBC, etc), and that complicates things at the station's end.

Canada isn't as heavily pushed into the digital signal medium like the US, so it would be very easy for someone in Canada to capture a nice RAW signal and make a clear DVD.

Not really. Like I said above, most program feeds provided for Canadian stations are now on the digital conditional access receivers. One of the few exceptions (last time I looked, which was this summer) is Paramount, which still feeds on analog C-band (on IA5 or IA6, if I recall).

As far as the stations go, pretty much all stations in Canada are O&O (owned and operated by the company), and those stations are operated out of very few locations (mainly Toronto), and those feeds for the local stations have the bugs, lower thirds, and even full commercials for probably most of the O&O stations.

Whew, that was tiring

[Doramius]

As for the lower thirds locally, depends on the area and some may have changed over already.

Most of the information I have up above is from when I was in college. I'm sure a lot of it has updated quite a bit since then.

Last I remember Yukon had no digital and British Columbia had a whole bunch of areas without. Ontario, and Alberta I think, was almost totally crossed over like you are stating.

You think that was tiring. Just wait for me to talk on how the EAS system evolved all the way from CONELRAD. There's a sleeper for ya, especially if I do my Ben Stein impersonation. :P


LET'S NOT do that.

[yoda313]

especially if I do my Ben Stein impersonation.

Who the hell is that??? Yes I know I'm too lazy to google it

[Doramius]

especially if I do my Ben Stein impersonation.

Who the hell is that??? Yes I know I'm too lazy to google it

WTF Yoda! You deserve to be stripped naked and whipped 30 times with a chain of paper clips for not knowing this.

Clue 1: BUELER?! BUELER?! BUELER?!
Clue 2: "For dry itchy eyes, get 'Visine Clear Eyes'. WOW!"
Clue 3: WIN BEN STEIN'S MONEY!

[yoda313]

EDIT - nevermind

[Doramius]

Yeah, I thought so!