RIAA backs rootkits

[BJ_M]

Everyone does it, what is the problem?

RIAA president Cary Sherman has backed Sony's use of spyware rootkits and claims that other companies do it all the time.

Sherman said that music corporations have the same right to protection as movie studios, video game makers, or software companies.

He said that there was nothing unusual about technology being used to protect intellectual property. He said that you can't make an extra copy of Windows or virtually any other software. Why should CDs be any different?

The only problem he had with the Sony BMG situation was that the technology it used contained a security vulnerability.

Sherman said that Sony had handled the situation well, by backing down. He said that Sony had apologised for its mistake, ceased manufacture of CDs with that technology,and pulled CDs with that technology from store shelves.

"Seems very responsible to me. How many times that software applications created the same problem? Lots. I wonder whether they've taken as aggressive steps as Sony BMG has when those vulnerabilities were discovered, or did they just post a patch on the Internet?" Sherman said. You can read a transcript of the interview HERE

[BJ_M]

a side note -- not sure what he means you can't make a backup copy of windows ... i know you are able to anyway ... and at least here .. legally make an archive copy ...

[ROF]

They just don't get it do they? Root kits aren't bad, it's how the root kit was installed and what it is capable of that causes it to be bad.

[GullyFoyle]

Man where is ROF? This is right up his alley.
Defense! Defense!
RIAA backs cattle prods and use of dental drills without anesthesia will soon be coming.

[ROF]

a side note -- not sure what he means you can't make a backup copy of windows ... i know you are able to anyway ... and at least here .. legally make an archive copy ...

Archive copy, Yes, in Canada using Canadian purchased media, but you are not authorized to use windows the same windows on two separate machines. That's what is meant. Most people who back up an audio CD are doing so for the purpose of having the audio tracks in two or more places at once.

[BJ_M]

well i can only listen to it in one place at a time ... usually ...

really the heart of the issue is that little kids of 5 and 6 and up make their own cd compilations and dont think there is anything wrong in doing it -- what else would all the mp3 players that are being sold be for ?


and these little kids are growing up and not going to change thier habits ..

[BobK]

Everyone does it, what is the problem?

Sherman said that Sony had handled the situation well, by backing down. He said that Sony had apologised for its mistake, ceased manufacture of CDs with that technology,and pulled CDs with that technology from store shelves.

Sony backed down? Sure, after a week of publicity and a couple lawsuits were filed they backed down.

Sony apologized- "most people don't know what a rootkit is, so why should they care". Nice apology.

[BJ_M]

the lawsuits came after to be correct ....

but according this -- sony still doesnt really get it ..

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27828

[ROF]

I still say most people outside the technophiles don't even know this has occured. It was a mistake, Sony corrected it, and hopefully they'll introduce a much stronger method of protection which doesn't open security holes in computer networks.

[davideck]

I still say most people outside the technophiles don't even know this has occured.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=285182

The Texas suit seems to have given legs to the story; I just heard it reported on NPR radio...

Maybe this fiasco will establish that no one (not even SONY or INTUIT) has the right to install malicious software on a users PC without a real threat of potential liability.

[BJ_M]

I still say most people outside the technophiles don't even know this has occurred. It was a mistake, Sony corrected it, and hopefully they'll introduce a much stronger method of protection which doesn't open security holes in computer networks.

here in Canada it was reported on national news , in all the newspapers and also even on cnn ... ive (and many others) mentioned some of the backlash in the sony forums and they were not to happy about it - (different divisions completely) but do agree it is there on a wide level ..

sony is so big that there is a lot of politics in different divisions , nor do they cooperate much at all ...

[Neroon]

The head of RIAA is publicly announcing that his pet cartel intends to put spyware anywhere they bloody please and that the public just has to accept that?!?!

I've been worrying for a long time about the cause of fair - use not having a lobby, but it seems our worst enemies are doing a damm good job of lobbying for us.

Here in Europa copyright - laws are already much leakier than our counterparts to RIAA&MPAA want to admit (Trifle - clause & such), because the last thing a politician can afford here is to be seen as a stooge of U.S. business interests. The rootkit affair as well as comments like that will only strenghen that.

P.S.: I hope software companies sue the bastard for slander over the last part where he claims they do the same thing all the time.

[BJ_M]

that is not slander

[adam]

After reading that transcript I do not think he is at all saying that he condones the use of rootkits, but just copy protection in general. When he says Sony goofed by using unsecure technology, I really think that would be a complete write off of rootkits if he had any idea what they really were.

BTW ROF, in the US (after all that's where the RIAA is) you ARE entitled to copy your music and use it in 2 places at the same time. Section 1008 generally authorizes all copying for personal use so long as you use digital audio recordings devices and media. In the legislative notes they specifically contemplate such things as making an extra copy for your car, or for work, or for your mp3 player.

And yeah in the US its perfectly legal to backup your copy of Windows so that RIAA guy wasn't briefed very well.

[ROF]

BTW ROF, in the US (after all that's where the RIAA is) you ARE entitled to copy your music and use it in 2 places at the same time. Section 1008 generally authorizes all copying for personal use so long as you use digital audio recordings devices and media. In the legislative notes they specifically contemplate such things as making an extra copy for your car, or for work, or for your mp3 player.

Section 1008 only protects the manufacturers, importers, and sellers from infringement charges due to infringing consumer use of their digital/analog media and/or digital/analog hardware devices. It has nothing to do with having the right to backup or have 2 copies.

[robertazimmerman]

[quote="ROF"]

Archive copy, Yes, in Canada using Canadian purchased media, but you are not authorized to use windows the same windows on two separate machines. That's what is meant. Most people who back up an audio CD are doing so for the purpose of having the audio tracks in two or more places at once.

I was under the ompression that you could load Windows on more than one machine as long as you don't use the machines simultaneously.

robertazimmerman

[BJ_M]

i have to go with adam on this one ...

i looked it up in depth here http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ ..

which pretty well has everything on this issue and then some



if you want to read the actual wording

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/17/chapters/10/subchapters/d/sections/s...tion_1008.html

[ROF]

i have to go with adam on this one ...

i looked it up in depth here http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ ..

which pretty well has everything on this issue and then some



if you want to read the actual wording

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/17/chapters/10/subchapters/d/sections/s...tion_1008.html

Can you show me where it says in copyright law that you are entitled to copy your music and use it in 2 places at the same time?

[BJ_M]

it is on the site i mentioned above-- look it up your self


btw - adam can comment on this part of the law:


Audio CD-Rs: There is a relatively unknown exception under the AHRA that legally allows you to make a digital copy of your music and give it to that perfect man or woman. Both of the following conditions must be met:

1. You must record the songs on a special Audio CD-R (or for that matter on a MiniDisc or a digital tape). Audio CD-Rs look virtually identical to regular CDs except for the price tag. An Audio CD-R will cost you anywhere from 2 to 10 times as much per CD. The rationale goes: Between you and the manufacturer of the CD, the required royalty taxes have already been paid, as opposed to regular CDs, where the music royalty taxes haven't been paid. It takes some searching, but you'll find Audio or Music CDs at your local RadioShack or Office Max.

2. You must also record the mix using a "digital audio recording device." Again, under the AHRA, computers don't count. You need to use a standalone CD burner. Those devices are acceptable because, here again, the royalty taxes have already been collected. For example, Sony, Panasonic, and Philips sell standalones.

[Micker_C]

Even on this thread, it's apparently obvious that people are unaware of what root kit really is, perhaps Sony is right. When "Technophiles" think they understand what a root kit is......

Some could do with a lesson or two on what an ASPI hook into the kernal of an OS really means, by a third party! Reformat, is what the end result is, for 96% of people who think they get it.

There is nothing more invasive than a root kit, stealthed and problomatic with calling home, with multiple cloaked files, masked as a native windows driver [Normal to the OS] -That when uncloaked and deleted will BSOD. There is no excuse for ANY business to incorporate this into any software, it's purely a black hat realm and should be acknowledged as such.

It would certainly help, if those with an opinion, actually understood the ramerfications of the code excecuted...They don't.

[Noahtuck]

Can you show me where it says in copyright law that you are entitled to copy your music and use it in 2 places at the same time?

And he stated BEFORE you made that comment,

well i can only listen to it in one place at a time ... usually ...

It has nothing to do with having the right to backup or have 2 copies.

Well, if you were not allowed to make 2 BU copies of an audio cd you owned then my thinking is "Sony" would have made their "Copy Protection" to only allow you to make 1 backup or 0 backup's, not limit you to 3 8)

Right or wrong... i personally don't care, when i go to BB and pay $15.00 for a single cd of just music, when i get home, i usually make at least 2 BU's right off, if not 3 or 4, one BU for my music room's 100 cd changer, 1 for maybe my bedroom, and when my 6-pack is in any given vehicle, one for my trunk.

I have cd's sitting stacked in my M.R., in my bedroom, ect. now when one of them get's wrecked in my car, scratched all up from being stacked where ever, and i want to go grab my original from my living room to make another BU to replace one that got screwed up in my car or WE, i can & i will, that is why i have cd's that are 15 years old, super rare & still look like brand new, because i don't like hauling my originals around in car's and all over my house so they can get wrecked and then go spend another $15.00 for something i already owned, or in some situation's never find a replacement at all!!

It was a mistake, Sony corrected it, and hopefully they'll introduce a much stronger method of protection which doesn't open security holes in computer networks.

And if they or anyone else does, i will do everything i can to still make BU's of them for around my home and vehicle for the reason's stated above 8)
Sure would suck to be you if someone or a little kid broke one of your original and expensive or rare cd's when it could have been a BU while your original was nice and safe tucked in a big cd cabinet

And beside's all that blah blah blahing,
What BJ_M stated about the "Music" cd-r's & dupe machines, that's why they charge more for those types of cd's 8)

[pdemondo]

Audio Home Recording ACT of 1992:

The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, an amendment to the U.S. federal Copyright Act of 1976. According to the AHRA, the manufacturers and importers of digital audio recording devices and media must pay a royalty tax to the copyright holders of music that is presumably being copied in order to compensate them for lost royalties due to consumers copying audio recordings at home. The payments are made to the U.S. Copyright office, which then distributes the royalties accordingly. Digital audio recording devices also must include a system that prohibits serial copying. The most common system in use is the Serial Copy Management System (SCMS), which permits first-generation digital-to-digital copies of prerecorded music but prohibits serial copies of those copies. In exchange, the copyright holders waive the right to claim copyright infringement against consumers using audio recording devices in their homes for noncommercial use. The royalty requirements do not apply to computers as they are not considered digital audio recording devices.

So if you use digital audio cd's (royalty paid to record companies) you
can make a copy of your cd for your car etc.

A few congressmen
are considering legislation to get back the roalties that have been
paid to record companies since they are now copy preventing CD's.

[Zen of Encoding]

Section 1008 only protects the manufacturers, importers, and sellers from infringement charges due to infringing consumer use of their digital/analog media and/or digital/analog hardware devices. It has nothing to do with having the right to backup or have 2 copies.

Will ROF *ever* wake-up to the realization that he's resoundingly proved
himself to be unqualified to discuss these issues?

He makes wildly inaccurate claims about the law and then just gets spanked and spanked and spanked.

At this point, I've taken to searching his posts just for the comedy value.

[kirpen]

Sony can put whatever they want on their discs. The only thing I want to see is a big fat warning sticker of the case. This Cd contains S*** that will F*** up your pc and take away your rights buy at your own risk.

[gll99]

@ kirpen

I would put it in different words but I agree.

Tell me clearly in bold print that I can read that there is something else on the disc and then I will have the choice to put the $$$$ back in my pocket.

I think those companies owe us that. Otherwise if I find out after I should get a full refund plus cost for my wasted time and gas.

[thecoalman]

At this point, I've taken to searching his posts just for the comedy value.

Here ya go: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1409040#1409040 :P

[NiteLite]

It was a mistake, Sony corrected it.

Not according to the professor and his team that exposed it. He claims Sony's fix is as bad if not worse as far as exposing your computer to attacks.

source: msnbc

[ROF]

it is on the site i mentioned above-- look it up your self


btw - adam can comment on this part of the law:


Audio CD-Rs: There is a relatively unknown exception under the AHRA that legally allows you to make a digital copy of your music and give it to that perfect man or woman. Both of the following conditions must be met:

1. You must record the songs on a special Audio CD-R (or for that matter on a MiniDisc or a digital tape). Audio CD-Rs look virtually identical to regular CDs except for the price tag. An Audio CD-R will cost you anywhere from 2 to 10 times as much per CD. The rationale goes: Between you and the manufacturer of the CD, the required royalty taxes have already been paid, as opposed to regular CDs, where the music royalty taxes haven't been paid. It takes some searching, but you'll find Audio or Music CDs at your local RadioShack or Office Max.

2. You must also record the mix using a "digital audio recording device." Again, under the AHRA, computers don't count. You need to use a standalone CD burner. Those devices are acceptable because, here again, the royalty taxes have already been collected. For example, Sony, Panasonic, and Philips sell standalones.

Exactly. So if standalones are used where does the rootkit install itself and how does it effect the security of your standalone? Sony or any other corporations does not have to manufacture Audio CDs which are capable of being played in computer devices. They can even and should include some way of stopping audio CDs from being playable in computer systems. That is one way they can prevent piracy. There is no royalty fee paid when you install upon your MP3 player or make these tracks available on P2P networks. You are infringing on copyright when doing so.

[smearbrick1]

i have to go with adam on this one ...

i looked it up in depth here http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ ..

which pretty well has everything on this issue and then some



if you want to read the actual wording

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/17/chapters/10/subchapters/d/sections/s...tion_1008.html

Can you show me where it says in copyright law that you are entitled to copy your music and use it in 2 places at the same time?

ROF - The Fox News Channel of Videohelp.com.

Where's RIAA? Can we get him/her in on this discussion?

[BJ_M]

even microsoft - those helpfull folks in redmond, want to help you back up your cds ....

see here http://www.microsoft.com/windows/plus/dme/Music.asp

Convert your entire music collection in Windows Media Player Media Library quickly and easily by using Plus! Audio Converter. This feature automatically scans your computer for audio files and converts them to Windows Media Audio (WMA) or MP3 format* with a click of a button.

Copy your CDs by using the new Windows Media Audio Lossless mode in Windows Media Player 9 Series to create archive-quality music files. Then use Plus! Audio Converter to create lower-bit-rate .wma or .mp3* files from your "master copies."

For fast and easy audio conversion, Plus! Audio Converter is the answer!