What's the "best" high end video camera available?

[johnnyallenshaw]

I know, "best" is an abstraction. I see these Panasonics and Canons on the cover of DV magazies with what looks like a hinge in the middle and a single, extended mic. I hesitate to call it a camcorder, it's too cool for that.

I don't even know if that's what I'm looking for. Where do I browse for the whole market selection? Even the SuperLucasCam 9000 isn't out of my range right now, but it ain't at Radio Shack.

If you had $5000-$10,000 to spend on the last camera you'd ever need --- one that gets the bitchinest capture and has enough editing capabilities to leave your client strongly impressed shortly after shooting --- yet is a manageable size (the PanasoniCanon is about 1 1/2' long with a big shade) --- one that takes high resolution burst stills --- one that turns into a gyro-jet pistol when you slap the bottom --- Pray, tell, what cam would you choose?

PS, just so you don't think I'm some snotty frat kid who thinks he can buy into an art form, I'll let you in on some background (if it intertests you). I was drunk and homeless for 15 years, but I sobered up about 6 years ago on my own. I'm still homeless, but I'm running an active videography studio out of the basement of a local pizza place, among others.

Now, one of my longtime friends is getting a huge settlement and has told me to go "...pick out that camera" after years of rock-bottom scraping.

Thanks for your input.

Johnny Allen Shaw
johnnyallenshaw@hotmail.com
http://johnnyallenshaw.digitalzones.com

[daamon]

Hi johnnyallenshaw,

Check out www.camcorderinfo.com - there's bound to be a section on super-mega-"gyro-jet pistol" cameras on that site.

There's a new breed of 3-CCD HDV cams coming out on the market. I don't know a brand / model number off the top of my head.

Here's a couple of other high end suggestions that I've heard of:

Canon's XL H1
Canon's XL2
Sony's DCR-VX2100

Good luck to you, and I hope your studio works out well.

[edDV]

$5000-$10,000 Won't get you started on even the best DV cam.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&cata...H&displayTab=O
$65,900 before options



here is the Panasonic Line
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11201&catalo...tGroupId=14569

If I had $10,000 I'd get the Panasonic AG-HVX200
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&store...odel=AG-HVX200
plus $3-4,000 in P2 cards and other accessories. Expect P2 cards to come down in price rapidly. Don't buy more than the minimum you need.



If I had $110,000 I'd get the Sony HDWF900
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=10014&p=16&sp=114&id=79625
Sony line
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplaySubCategory?m=10014&p=2&sp=11

Bottom line: You probably want to rent high end camcorders, not buy. At least until you know what to buy.

[edDV]

... to spend on the last camera you'd ever need ---

You have to be kidding. Figure 5-7 years before they are obsolete.

Also figure in a maintenance budget.

[canadateck]

$5000-$10,000 Will get you somthing Very Good,I'm sure,Like daamon said look though that site tons of info and reviews.

Good Luck.

[edDV]

While we are on the subject look at the new Panasonic AG-DVX100B. A nice SD choice.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&store...del=AG-DVX100B

[thecoalman]

Well if I had $10,000 to spend I'd probably go with something in the $5000 range and spend the rest on acessories like additional lenses, real good tripod etc.

[mracer]

What is your friend planning to do with this camera? That is the most important thing to know before you buy. Video cameras today are built with different purposes in mind, there is no "one size fits all", "fulfills every need" camera on the market.

In the U.S. 1500-10000 dollar range I would not even consider an SD (standard definition) camera. SD is on the way out and so is the DV codec. HD using HDV codec or better is the way to go now, even if your final ouput is still SD DVD.


Here are some HD camera options $10,000 or below:
Sony HDR-HC1 -HDV, DV, 16:9 1080i, 480i $1,649.95
Sony HVR-A1U -HDV, DV, 16:9 1080i, 480i $2,699.00
Sony HDR-FX1 -HDV, DV, 16:9 1080i, 480i $3,129.99
Sony HVR-Z1U -HDV, DV, 16:9 1080i, 480i $4,900.00

JVC GY-HD100U -HDV, DV, 720p (30p and 24p), 480i (60i), 480p (60p, 30p, 24p), removable lens, $ 5,499.95 (be aware this camera has some bugs or possibly design flaws, steer clear until they are resolved)

Canon XL-H1 (coming soon) -HDV, DV, 16:9, 1080p, 480p, 1080i, 480i, 60i, 30p, and 24p modes, removable lens, HD-SDI output, around $10,000

Panasonic AG-HVX200 (coming soon) DV, DVCPro25, DVCPro50, DVCPro100 codecs, 16:9, 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p (60i,30p,24p) and 2x 8GB Cards $ 9,994.95 (note this camera only records DV to tape, all other formats and HD require extremely expensive P2 memory cards or a firestore disk device)

[julitomg]

[QUOTE="johnnyallenshaw"]
If you had $5000-$10,000 to spend on the last camera you'd ever need --- one that gets the bitchinest capture and has enough editing capabilities to leave your client strongly impressed shortly after shooting

1.- The last camera you´d ever need??...who knows, maybe Edtv´s estimate of 5-7 años is a lot these days...I´d be careful to select a camera that´s gonna serve that much. For example you have to decide wich format you will use, ok; it´s probably going to be DV, but there are different ones(DVCAM, miniDVCAM, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, DV, miniDV, etc...), then there´s the SD vs. HD issue, 30 fps.(60i)vs. 24p , 1080i vs. 720p, and finaly tape vs. tape-less(HD recording, P2 card, DVD, etc..)
2.- In general terms, higher end cameras last longer(well mantained), offer better and more reliable results but have less bells and whistles(digital effects, auto settings, stupid 100X % up digital zooms, etc..), higher quality lenses play an important role(like the Zeiss lenses in Sony´s better models, Leica in Panasonic, the Canon´s XL1 & 2´sinterchangeable lenses)as well as the CCD´s used(you´d obiously go for a 3 CCD rig)...as for the "bitchinest capture", well it sometimes depends more on who´s behind the camera than the camera´s features or price(so you have to know about exposure, focal distance, depth of field, lightning basics, white-and black-balance, color temperature, shutter speeds, etc...) to get the most out of every camera.
and
3.-The "editing capabilities" depend more on your editing system (software & harware)rather than on the camera itself(again, speaking of high end, Pro or Prosumer cameras)

[spectroelectro]

The best DV cameras you can buy are found in TV studios. They typically cost somewhere north of $250,000, and the lenses alone cost upwards of $50,000. That's the best. I doubt that's what you meant.

Probably you're not talking about "the best video camera," but the "best consumer camcorder." That narrows it down.

Opinions vary on the best consumer camcorder. One of the best is undoubtedly the Canon XL-H1, and it clocks in at around $9000 on the street. That's without extra lenses, tripod, etc. It's HD. The SD version is the Canon XL1s, at around $4000.

However, the Sony VX2000 is also considered one of the best home camcorders available, and it costs a lot less -- about $2200. You might be surprised to learn that all the street scenes on the 2003 series Robbery Homicide Division were filmed with Sony VX2000's. So it's a darn good SD camcorder for prosumer work.

If you want hi-def, the JVC GR-HD1 and the Sony HDR-FX1 are excellent prosumer HD models.

One thing to consider is that at present if you shoot video in HD, there is no way to burn it onto any media that the average consumer can play in HD. DVD-Rs won't play back HD video on any standard standalone DVD player. The only way you can record any form of HD and play it back right now is to encode it into a format like H264 or Xvid or Divx and play it on your computer.

This being the case, you'll probably want to stay away from shooting in HD for the time being. We're at least 4 to 5 years away from any kind of integrated home disc-burning / disc authoring / disc encoding solution for HD video. We don't even have a consumer HD disc format yet. And depending on which disc format wins (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) it might be a lot longer than that, since the folks in Hollywood are pushing hard to load on lots of DRM copy protection and to prevent the computer industry from selling Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disc burners to consumers, which does nothing to prevent piracy but will prevent home video producers from generating original HD content on writable disc.

For standard definition 720 x 480 ordinary video, the Sony VX2000 and the Canon LX1 are probably your best bets. It's safe to say that standard definition video is not going away anytime soon, snd since there aren't any actual home disc authoring/burning products available now for HD, we'll all be sticking with standard definition DVD format for home video production for the next few years.

[johnnyallenshaw]

You guys have been great. Your feedback has shown me the edges of the puzzle.

I've narrowed it down to the Canon xl2 --- HD isn't worth it right now. Any advice on this camera about pitfalls? Am I right in thinking I have to drop the DV down to MPEG and then DVD? What's the biggest drawback?

[edDV]

You guys have been great. Your feedback has shown me the edges of the puzzle.

I've narrowed it down to the Canon xl2 --- HD isn't worth it right now. Any advice on this camera about pitfalls? Am I right in thinking I have to drop the DV down to MPEG and then DVD? What's the biggest drawback?

Biggest drawback: size and weight
- too large and cumbersome for casual shooting.
- also expensive accessories
- limited to 8bit SD resolutions
- imtimidating to any "non-actors" you point it at.
- may get you mugged
- excess baggage charge on airlines (needs a suitcase and another for accessories).

Otherwise it is a great camera if your goal is the Sundance Film Festival. Don't forget the 30-80 pound tripod. Lighting will be key to getting the pro look.



Seroiusly, you should rent one for a weekend before you consider buying.

[zoobie]

They buy all this high end stuff....then end up filming a spider in the backyard...

[thecoalman]

Ooooooooh look at all the buttons. ....

[edDV]

These high end camcorders are great for serious projects or even better if you can make money with them. You just need a second small one for travel.

[julitomg]

About the size and weight of a camera like the Canon XL2 and the like:
The cameras with wich I started learning(15 years ago) about pro video were 3 tube Ikegami´s (you read well, they weren´t even CCDs). The camera and lens weighted about three times(at least)more than a XL2 AND they plugged to "portable" 3/4" decks, about the size and weight of a midtower CPU...the multi-pin cable that connected them alone weighted MORE than some miniDV camcorders. I can tell you it was good exercise...
Now, if you´re serious about your videography job you probably won´t mind a few extra pounds(you ´re likely to employ an assistant anyway)if you consider that you won´t take only the camera to a shoot; you´ll most likely take a tripod(the sturdier/heavier, the better), additional batteries, a separate charger, cables, mics, headphones, lights, etc...maybe even a field monitor(battery operated)if you´re working for a client who insists on supervising every shot(you won´t like such a client looking over your shoulder at the LCD camera screen all the time)
That brings us to another point in favor of a larger camera:
Let´s say you´re in the middle of a nice open air wedding ceremony (as a guest)...and for some reason TWO different guys have been hired to tape it, ok; let´s see videographer number 1:
a smart looking fella with a small travel/camcorder bag by his side, a nice little miniDV camcorder held in one hand(because he thought a tripod would be just a drag)and a glass of wine in the other(he didn´t know what to do with the extra hand anyway)..then, there is No.2: A guy with a couple of larger bags(don´t worry, his assistant helps him to carry the stuff), a tripod an a larger camera, probably one that mounts on his shoulder TV crew style...Frome the bag he takes the nessesary cables to wire a boom mike(that his assistant will hold at the right time)and a couple of lights and stands to make it all look better...maybe in the bags there´s even a second camera to be operated by the assistant (or another cameraman)if needed..and he uses a tripod.
Now...which one do you think looks "more proffesional"?, who should charge more?or even show he earns what he charges???
Larger cameras have that pro-look value. Yes, you can get mugged or get them covered by sand if you´re shooting on a beach, but proffesional gear usually gets insured.
Striking a balance between weight/size/convenience and performance I´d choose a Sony VX2100, it´s image quality is great for almost any video job you may throw at it(unless you really need HD, 24 fps or other very specific needs but that´s already discused), I´d choose it over the Canon but this maybe more of a personal opinion (I once used a Canon XL1 and did´t like its viewfinder, its lens felt very slow and unresponsive when zooming and focusing and in general didn´t like the "feel" of it in general, like when you pushed a button, it felt too much like a plastic button on a toy spaceship or something, I think SONYs are sturdier and more solid "feeling")
The miniDV-MPEG-DVD route is a great idea, just make sure you use a good program like TMPGENC to convert your files, the fastest (and with the most memory)computer you can afford or put together and look up in this site the tons of great info about conversions, formats, compresion, tips and tricks...good luck.