10080 Vs 9848 BITRATE

[bayaraa_us]

Ok

Some sites and programs say "maximum DVD compliant" combined Bitrate cannot be more than 10080 kbps and some say it is 9448kbps.

Which one is the right one?

[FulciLives]

To be safe I never set the video bitrate more than 8000kbps ... unless I am using (very rarely) PCM WAV audio then I set it no more than 7500kbps because you can't be too carefull about upper limit bitrates.

A burned DVD does not act as well as a pressed DVD in terms of readibility which means you have to be slightly conservative with the bitrate limit. Otherwise you might get playback issues (like stuttering) on some DVD players.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[adam]

Just read the What is DVD section on this site and it explains it. The total video bitrate allowed is 9800kbps. I've never seen 9448 for anything, that is not one of the limitations.

The 10080kbps is for total combined bitrate meaning video and audio.

[edDV]

Just read the What is DVD section on this site and it explains it. The total video bitrate allowed is 9800kbps. I've never seen 9448 for anything, that is not one of the limitations.

The 10080kbps is for total combined bitrate meaning video and audio.

Individual players can have problems using these high datarates. If you have control of the player then go for it. If you are distributing DVD to others, expect lots of returns and complaints.

[adam]

He asked about the limits of the DVD specifications, not the limitations of recordable media.

[manono]

And if the player isn't spec compliant, it's a piece of junk anyway.

[edDV]

And if the player isn't spec compliant, it's a piece of junk anyway.

But people will only pay $20-50 for a player. Actually the spec problem is often worse with older more expensive players.

[Wile_E]

TMPGEnc software actually reports 9848kbps as max. This is supposedly because of difference in using 1000k vs 1024k to represent 1KB. I always ignore the error and set average VBR to 7000-8000 and maximum VBR of 9800kb video + 256kb AC3 audio.

Can't wait for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, so I can take my DV files and play them directly from the disc or encode them using a higher bitrate than what DVD format allows. CCE Basic already allows you to encode up to 15000kb for video.

[Stormin Norman]

Depends, a gigabyte is usually considered to be equivalent to 1000 megabytes, whereas software normally considers that one gigabyte is equivalent to 1024 megabytes (the same is valid for megabytes and kilobytes). Bits are nearly always calculated using a factor of 1000 (not 1024). For this reason, a "4.7 GB" disc actually has only 4.37 "software" gigabytes, but 9.8 Mb (megabits) is equivalent to 9800 kb (kilobits). Though if your talking high def, that a whole different story as Wile_E is talking about (like 3 times higher).

[bayaraa_us]

I wanted to keep the video 9800kbps and the audio 384.

But Tmpgenc won't allow that many kbps.
What should i do?

I thought I could go up to 10080 kbps Video+Audio combined.

9848 and 10080 are lot of difference.

[steveryan]

Which version of TMPGEnc are you using? I use the 2.5 version and that allows video of up to 15000 kbps. If you must use video with 9800 bitrate then you will have to use audio with a bitrate of 256 or lower.

[bayaraa_us]

Yes, I was talking about TMpgenc DVD Author 1.6 not the encoder itself.

[greymalkin]

I usually try to get a combined audio/video of 9800.

[steveryan]

Sorry, I thought you meant TMPGEnc. Just re-encode the audio to 256 and it will be fine. I just did a test with 9800 video and 256 audio and TDA accepted it.

[bayaraa_us]

Really?

Cool i'm gonna try it tonight.

[Cornucopia]

I wanted to keep the video 9800kbps and the audio 384.

But Tmpgenc won't allow that many kbps.
What should i do?

I thought I could go up to 10080 kbps Video+Audio combined.

9848 and 10080 are lot of difference.

Did you notice that:

9800 (V) +
384 (A) =
------
10184 --> Too high of a combined bitrate. You'll have to lower something.

Scott

[bayaraa_us]

Oops it's little too high there he, he

But I was wondering why do Tmgenc say Max is 9848 and some other legitimate sites say 10080 is the Max.
Maybe for burned DVD it's 9848 and for Pressed DVD it's 10080 ???

[SLK001]

DVDs are read from any player at a constant bit rate (and it is 26.16 Mbps!). The MAXIMUM combined program streams data rate is 10,080,000 bps. The MAXIMUM video rate is 9,800,000 bps. Exceed these and you are in trouble.

[edDV]

DVDs are read from any player at a constant bit rate (and it is 26.16 Mbps!). ...

Explain that statement please.

[adam]

From Jim Taylor's DVD FAQ.

Maximum video bit rate is 9.8 Mbps. The "average" video bit rate is around 4 Mbps but depends entirely on the length, quality, amount of audio, etc. This is a 31:1 reduction from uncompressed 124 Mbps video source (or a 25:1 reduction from 100 Mbps film source). Raw channel data is read off the disc at a constant 26.16 Mbps. After 8/16 demodulation it's down to 13.08 Mbps. After error correction the user data stream goes into the track buffer at a constant 11.08 Mbps. The track buffer feeds system stream data out at a variable rate of up to 10.08 Mbps. After system overhead, the maximum rate of combined elementary streams (audio + video + subpicture) is 10.08.

[edDV]

From Jim Taylor's DVD FAQ.

Maximum video bit rate is 9.8 Mbps. The "average" video bit rate is around 4 Mbps but depends entirely on the length, quality, amount of audio, etc. This is a 31:1 reduction from uncompressed 124 Mbps video source (or a 25:1 reduction from 100 Mbps film source). Raw channel data is read off the disc at a constant 26.16 Mbps. After 8/16 demodulation it's down to 13.08 Mbps. After error correction the user data stream goes into the track buffer at a constant 11.08 Mbps. The track buffer feeds system stream data out at a variable rate of up to 10.08 Mbps. After system overhead, the maximum rate of combined elementary streams (audio + video + subpicture) is 10.08.

System overhead is buried into every data transmission. Pre modulation data rates are of interest only to DVD media and laser pickup designers. The usable data rate is the 10.08 Mb/s post buffer number.

An analogy may be a 1.44 MB floppy disk which has a preformat capacity of 2.0 MB. Or we could confuse things further by specifying a floppy by number of magneic particle reversals per microsecond as read by the head.

[SLK001]

System overhead is buried into every data transmission. Pre modulation data rates are of interest only to DVD media and laser pickup designers. The usable data rate is the 10.08 Mb/s post buffer number.

True, but I was trying to dispel the implied "factoids" from quotations like "my DVD player can only play discs encoded at less than 7500kbps" implying that the DVD player can read the raw data at a variable bit rate and therefore can more easily read discs encoded at lower maximum bit rates. I was also trying to illustrate that the data rates for pressed DVDs is no different than for a "home-brewed" version.

[Cornucopia]

True, but what was mentioned earlier could be better clarified this way:

Let's say compatibility is 100% for Pressed DVD's
and 94% for DVD-R and DVD+R
and 75 % for DVD-RW and DVD+RW (that's enough variety for now)

With most Players that have a standard ~2MB buffer, reading a clean Pressed DVD is easy, but a scratched disc requires disc re-reads and error detection and correction circuitry to kick in, where the buffer value drops. If the scratch is too bad, the buffer is emptied and a freeze/black/skip occurs.

Recordables have that stated lesser compatibility, and will also require re-reads, etc--not to overcome a scratch, but to verify that it actually is getting the data it should. This will also lower the buffer. Add even a mild scratch onto that and it makes sense why there might be skipping, etc. Plus the various brands/formulations have varying levels of readability, further compounding the difficult situation.

Scott

[Cornucopia]

Forgot the 2nd part--

Using a lowered bitrate allows for an easier time for the buffer to be maintained. In a sense, it does a read-ahead of, say 8 frames instead of 5. If it has to re-read and error correct, it has more leeway to do so.

Scott