Interlaced or not Interlaced?

[mirh]

I read in this forum that if I want to watch my SVCD on TV I shouldn’t deinterlace my source material (Pal) so I did it that way with TMPGEnc (captured 480x576 from Video8 camcorder).
I checked weather the field order was ok. and the result was a bit jerky comparing to SVCD obtained from deinterlaced material (Vdub filter). I did this also with a movie captured from my TV tuner and the result was the same : a bit jerky picture.
The strange thing is that not whole picture is shaking but only some parts of it and it doesn’t happens all the time.
There is also one easily noticeable thing when I push pause a still from interlaced material looks much worse (some parts are shaking hard) than still from movie made from deinterlaced source.
My question is how to obtain the best possible quality making SVCD from video8 or TV tuner assuming watching it on TV.
Instead of TMPGEnc I can use CCE 2.5
Sorry for my bad english...
Mirek

[Jestorius]

You can try to use deinterlace (Tmpgenc) Double field adaptation or other filter. The goal is to get a motionblur effect instead of interlace.

[homerpez]

I have been (lately) capturing AND encoding Interlaced material to SVCD's, and it works extremely well...

I would suggest to you, YES check the field order like you're doing, and also, I would have both your input format AND output format as "Interlaced". Otherwise, it could br trying to make a progressive product out of interlaced source material, which doesn't aways work without filtering.

Then input and output are interlaced, it should work so long as the feild order is correct. Then again, I frameserve from TMPGEnc to CCE, so it could just be a problem with TMPGEnc alone (maybe "Detect Scene change" checked)?

Or... are you encoding using Highest motion search on? You will probably need to do so, if you're not...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: homerpez on 2001-12-19 11:22:26 ]</font>

[ngnr]

Mirek, when you say you checked the field order, what exactly did you do? Did you encode a test file for each of the two field order options and pick the one that looked best? It sounds like that is your problem so I suggest you try another encode with the opposite field order. When the order is right, the quality is very good with interlacing when viewed on TV.

[Nelson37]

This is confusing, but I think what you may be seeing is that the slight motion blur from deinterlacing can compensate for either dropped frames or loss of motion capture. test both ways for field order, it's obvious when you get that right. If that's OK, then you need to up your motion settings or lower res to prevent frame drops. Interlace should look fine on TV, bad on PC.
When you say an interlaced still is "shaking hard", what exactly do you mean?

[SatStorm]

interlace is a headache!

If you have interlace source and you encode to 576 (pal) or 480 (ntsc) vertical lines (etc: 480 x 576), then play with field order and don't de - interlace
But if you encode to 288 Pal or 240 (ntsc) vertical lines, you HAVE to de - interlace your source!

The output is another thing: If you create xSVCD (like sefy's SxVCD) then you can set the encoder to progressive and interlace output. The interlace output creates 2 FX:
1. Give smoothness to de-interlaced files (progressive output is a little jumpie)
2. You have better colours... (Because TV sets love Interlace)
There is also a minus: For good blockness-free interlace output, you need more bitrate!


Anyway, the main goal is:
For 352 X 288 (240) output, de - interlace.
For XXX x 576 (480) output, play with field order and don't interlace...

There is a "tip", sometimes work with VHS source, captured with full res: De-interlace and output as mpeg - 2 interlace and XXX x 576 (480). With this "method", the encoder add vertical lines to the output mpeg from the de-interlaced source. On old vhs tapes, this sometimes is better than Interlace > encode to interlace XXX x 576 (480). In a way is like "blur" the VHS and then add sharpness...
But that is a personal opinion. Only by testing yourself you 'll find the best solution!

There is only one true Rule:
For VCD output, always de - interlace your source! Always!!!
With mpeg 2 (svcd, etc) Test yourself!

[paolor]

I'm very confused ....
I try to create VCD from my DV Source I have acquired & Mout whith Ulead Video Studio, I have saved in DV (PAL) mode & try to encode whith TMGENC & Burning Whith Nero.
All Works but ....
But the quality is not really the best i have block in DARK scenes & distrub in high contrast scene.

Deinterlace is the best for show on my tv sets (PAL) ???

Paolo

P.S. My DVD PLAYER LG DVD 4950 supports only VCD

[bilbogod]

Yeah, I need some clarification on this as well.. Just finished encoding the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon extras to SVCD. Nightmare!! Picture jerking everywhere - never had this before!! I suspect it's to do with these settings your referring to. These scenes are very fast motion.. My source is DVD VOBS. What should the correct settings be for a Pal t.v. set. (Interlace, NonInterlace, Progressive). Help lost!!

[Jestorius]

Why has a riped DVD on a VCD/SVCD better quality and your encoded miniDV/Hi8 or whatever? Better quality=softer/smoother image.

I guess becouse the original source was produced with a film camera (not interlaced) and instead of interlacing the camera is making a motion blur effect.

In the early years when I was working with 3D animations the software didn't had the interlace option, only motion bluring. I rendeerd (PAL) 25frames/s with motion blur and the movement was very nice. Later the software got the interlace option and I was using interlacing. The software made 50 frames and composed 25-25 together to make a 25 interlaced frames. The movement was still very nice.

So if I gonna make a "reverse enginiering" and with Tmpgenc deinterlace option (many possibilities) I can get a motion blured video frame out of 2 half interlaced picture. The resultat is a blury film like VCD or SVCD.

[SatStorm]

I said it is confusing!

Interlace come from captures from TV, VHS or rips from DVB/s/c/t transmissions
Progressive comes from rips from DVD video (not always) and I think DV.

VCDs are only progressive. Mpeg 1 don't support interlace!

If you have progressive source, you don't have to de-interlace nothing!

For blocks on SVCD, the only true solution is more bitrate...
2pass VBR with Tmpeg at about 2600kb/s max, 2100 average and 1200 min, creates good looking SVCD, but not perfect.
Cinemacraft encoder is better on this, but ain't free..

I repeat: Testing is the only answer for your questions: Follow the guides, test the forum tips and soon or later, your (s)vcds gonna rock!