Dell's 512MB can hold more than Apple's 512MB!

[shelbyGT]

Dell releases new portable mp3 players aimed at iShuffle

And I quote the article:

The DJ Ditty weighs 1.29 ounces and its 512 megabytes of storage can hold as many as 220 songs, Dell of Round Rock, Texas, said in a statement. The device, which has a 1-inch (0.26 cm) screen for managing playlists, starts at $99.

By contrast, the 512-megabyte version of Apple Computer Inc.'s shuffle, which also costs $99, stores 120 songs; a 1-gigabyte version sells for $129 and holds 240 songs, according to the company's Web site.

Honestly, I could fit over 500 songs on my 512MB card if I wanted to encode them all at 52 kbps!!

[Shocker Milwaukee]

Is is a WMA vs. MP3 comparison?

[shelbyGT]

I didn't read any fine print that stated which format and at what rate Dell was basing that judgement on.

That still doesn't change the fact that 512MB is 512MB is 512MB. Encoding at lower bitrates will always result in more songs per MB.

[celtic_druid]

Well on my 1GB player I have aprox 290 songs and they are all vorbis. With mp3 or wma I would want to try and pack that many on, let alone 440.

[lordsmurf]

I stick about 50-60 songs on a 64MB thing I've got, all as WMA. There is not any reason for these mega files with lots of bitrate. Earphones wreck it anyway, just make it so that it sounds somewhat similar to the original. Compress it down all you want.

[Darth Paris]

That still doesn't change the fact that 512MB is 512MB is 512MB. Encoding at lower bitrates will always result in more songs per MB.

Yeah, the only thing that I can think of that would slightly justify this comparison is if the Dell player came with some software.

[dr9553]

512MB4 of storage for up to 220 songs2

2 Assumes audio format is 64kbps WMA encoding with average song length of 4 min.

yeah i would say thats a pretty low bitrate..

[shelbyGT]

True LS, if all you're listening to is through headphones. However, I have a direct line-in with my ipod to my car stereo ( http://www.sylfex.com/products/AuxMod/ ) and I also have it hooked up to my home theatre. So it's not always okay to go with the 128 kbps, or whichever it may be.

[Marty2003]

The difference is Dell's player supports WMA wheras the iShuffle doesn't, so you can fit twice as many songs on Dell's as you can on the iShuffle at similar quality. I see no problem whith what they're saying.

I personally store all my songs on my MP3 player in lower-bitrate WMA format so I can fit more songs, something I couldn't do if I had an iShuffle.

[Faustus]

Yeah but other then some of the online stores, who WANTS WMA, its just something forced upon 90% of the market.

Not to mention if its getting more on it on the fly that means DELL is doing another compression on your file when you load it onto the player. Thats lame.

The MP3 player I want right now I'd have to import. I want it because its so lame its cool in a geeky way.

http://www.packardbell.co.uk/products/node1791.asp

[celtic_druid]

ogg vorbis offers better quality than WMA, doesn't mean that I am going to squeeze a rediculus amount of tracks onto a player.

I have an Alpine adapter for my iPod and I agree no point spending $1,000's on a stereo to listen to 128k mp3's.

[shelbyGT]

I am not entirely convinced that WMA is that much of a superior format to begin with, so I don't entirely view that as a selling point. I don't think I have a WMA in my entire collection.

I'm just saying that apple could come out and say you can fit 500 songs on 512MB if they wanted to.

[alsyed]

the mp3 player i'm getting in a few days time is pretty cool too....


cowon systems Iaudio G3 1GB player

http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=337479

in essence, i think 128Kbit is default alround good for these mp3 players. at least for the lower memory models.

hey and flaystus: that mp3 player looks cool, but built in lithium batt with about 18 hours playback time, while better than others... the iaudio g3 has 50 hours with 1 AA battery!

[thoughton]

The 220 song blurb is based on 64kbps WMA.

Funny commentary here: http://daringfireball.net/2005/09/ditty (warning- pro mac site, don't bother visiting if you hate apple already )

[rebarlow]

(0.26 cm) screen for managing playlists, starts at $99.

.26 cm?? hope you brought your magnifying lens.

[alsyed]

it was quoted as being 1 inch (0.26cm)

1 inch = 2.54 cm

but the ipod shuffle doesn't even have an lcd for managing playlists....

[celtic_druid]

@alsyed, that is the exact player I was talking about earlier.

[alsyed]

@celtic_druid, how do you find the iaudio G3? it was the only one i could find that would take an AA battery for much longer and easier battery life. I've read reviews and they are all positive, save for a couple that said they didn't like the little joystick.

[the future]

The difference is Dell's player supports WMA wheras the iShuffle doesn't, so you can fit twice as many songs on Dell's as you can on the iShuffle at similar quality. I see no problem whith what they're saying.

I personally store all my songs on my MP3 player in lower-bitrate WMA format so I can fit more songs, something I couldn't do if I had an iShuffle.

But if you had a shuffle (or other iPod), you could encode your tunes in AAC, which is even more efficient (and sounding better) than WMA. Just face it, that Dell PR about twice as many songs on same capacity players is just complete BS.

[hexxisoft]

Apple's PR is just as guilty, saying the G5 is the world's fastest computer.

[the future]

Sure, most PR is BS. But Dell's is more ridiculous/desperate than most.

[whitejremiah]

in reguards to this whole thing, here's my two cents...yes, wma is better......at least it CAN be......this is also hugely dependant on the settings used to encode the files to begin with....if they dont use the 2 pass setting, its honestly not THAT much better than mp3...if they DO then its a decent quality jump...for example, in my car stereo...it supports both mp3 and wma....i used to encode to mp3 at 224k/s using lame...then wma 9.1 came out and i figured what the heck, i will give it at a run...much to my demise, the highest bitrate is 192k/s with the program i was using......that 192k/s though, KILLS the 224k/s mp3 i was using..........using one pass though, its about the same, if not slightly LOWER quality......

[shelbyGT]

I find AAC even at just 128kbps to be quite good, although I do encode 192 kbps, or if I'm feeling frisky VBR (which I like even more).

AAC and WMA are both superior to mp3, but between AAC and WMA, it's a he-said-she-said match.

[whitejremiah]

between aac and wma though, i'd personally take wma...yes, its made by the good ol evil empire, but its a LOT more compatable with various devices than aac....as far as for computer use, though, i stick with ogg or .la (i try and crunch the audio as much as possible in lossless even if it DOES take four times as long to encode ) but yea..........mp3 is a VERY old standard and it can be outdone by more modern codecs....a lot of people dont realize exactly HOW old mp3 is..i think it was first started in the late 80's? someone wanna correct me if im wrong on that? WMA is one of the few things that MS is actually dong pretty good though...they just need to get rid of DRM now........(im not expecting that to happen any time soon though)

[shelbyGT]

I wish mp3PRO would catch on:

http://www.mp3prozone.com/

[celtic_druid]

Thing to remember though is that Apple only supports LC aac not he ps aac which is what you want for really low bitrates. Most if not all WMA devices only support WMA standard, not pro, lossless, etc.

I wouldn't say that WMA std is better than even mp3.

The other thing is that without proper testing you can't really say that anything is better than something else.

The joystick on the G3 is fine. I have no real complaints about the player. A lot of people do complain about its recording abilities though.

[Jester700]

A few thoughts:
1) Headphones range widely in quality. My Shure E2C canal phones are pretty durn good, and I also use my player with my Sony MDR7506 "studio" phones. Also as mentioned, I plug this into my stero & carstereo occasionally. So I almost always use the LAME "standard" preset; plus, that's compatible with ALL my gear.
2) There are differences in codecs at the same bitrate, but changing the bitrate usually has a much greater impact on sound. NO codec at 128k has ever beaten an MP3 at 192k that I've heard. If you need MAX number of songs at a given size, fine, but if you have a huge drive or shuffle songs on & off the player, this is less of an issue - use whatever's compatible.

There are some listening tests at
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/
But they become outdated fairly quickly.

[Tidy]

These companies claiming "200 songs" "440 songs" etc are full of crap. I can get 100,000,000,000 songs on my 4MB memory stick all I have to do is compress from 64k WMA to 1bit. Hey I could probably put the entire library of congress on my 128MB thumb drive if I removed all the consonants from the documents. I really hope nobody listens much to the whole # of songs estimates released by electronics and computer manufacturers.


IMHO this is just as bad as hard disk companies selling you a drive with a decimal size when the reality is Binary GB are what you will really perceive upon use.

[ROF]

The shuffle is utter junk and built to be crushed. I've had to return three after they continued to fail when loading them up with music. The price for those devices is outrageous. Sure it's small, but you can't build playlists or even access individual tracks. It's literally a shuffle drive where you load it up and it plays your music randomly. Skipping tracks isn't always recognized either by the shuffle so you have to hit the skip several times possibly skipping more than one song. With the choices of players out there, an MP3 player without playlist support, No FM Tuner, or the lack of a view screen is kinda unacceptable at the price being demanded.

Like others said, 512 is 512 is 512, but 512 with support for additional memory is much better.

[shelbyGT]

The only time I've wanted an FM tuner in my mp3 player was when a sports game was on. But even then, those are on AM typically.