Panasonic DMR-ES20 debuts

[trhouse]

The DMR-ES20 appeared at the local Circuit City today. Sitting right next to the ES10, these are the obvious differences,

1. The ES20 is 25% less deep
2. The ES20 has a fan on the right rear where the ES10 tuner used to be. The ES10 has no fan.
3. The ES20 has only two external inputs, IN1 and IN2 ( front panel ) where the ES10 had three.
4. The ES20 has a DV input on the left side of the IN2 input.
5. The price is the same for both models, $189.95.
6. The ES20 has all I/O ( except IN2 ) now centered in the middle of the back of the unit.
7. The front panel looks unchanged except for the DV input behind the drop down door.

Here is a link to specs on the Canadian site,

http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/dvdvcr/recorder/dmres20.asp

The ES10 has been dropped from the line up.

[r3n4ud]

Thanks for the info . Gonna wait for some reviews to see if I'll pick this one up or the Toshiba DR4.

[bgclarke]

Due to the loss of one of the line inputs on the back of the DMR-ES20, I picked up a DMR-ES10 before they were all gone.

[captcrunch]

It says. New LP recording mode with 500 lines horizontal resolution.
What does the ES-10 have then??

[bgclarke]

The ES10 has the 500 lines resolution in LP mode as well.

Specs for the ES10 and ES20:
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/index.html

[gshelley61]

Thanks for the info . Gonna wait for some reviews to see if I'll pick this one up or the Toshiba DR4.

Toshiba D-R4 has no DV input.

[Synergy]

Looks like Panasonic didn't use the 12-bit A/D converter for the DMR-ES20, according to the following page:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/index.html

The following link also mentions that 4X natural gradiation only apples to the ES10 model:

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/high_picture_quality.html

[donpedro]

From posted link it seems that ES20 does not play DVD-Audio.

[peggypwr1]

Does it use an LSI chip? I not an expert, but I heard that LSI is very good.

[bgclarke]

Does it use an LSI chip? I not an expert, but I heard that LSI is very good.

No, it uses Panasonic's own DIGA chip.

The ES20 also seems to be a bit of a step down from the ES10 in it's internals and capabilities.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/high_picture_quality.html

Based on the above URL, it looks like only the ES10 uses the 12bit Analog-to-Digital Converter.

[peggypwr1]

Why the hell would Panasonic want to release a DVD player thats crappier than the previous model? I would rather get DMR ES10, but then again the DMR ES20 supports double sided discs.

[lordsmurf]

Does it use an LSI chip? I not an expert, but I heard that LSI is very good.

Somebody told me that it does, but I have yet to confirm this.
What I have seen to date is DIGA in-house chip info.

We'll see.

[ncaahoops]

Anyone have any hands-on info or early reviews on this one? I just noticed it's available @ CircuitCity (online and in-store) and J&R sent me an in-stock email.

I'm almost ready to buy, so I'm anxiously waiting for more data to come out! (I am between the Pioneers and Panasonics (see other thread for details)).

[ncaahoops]

Lord of the Smurfs,

Would a potential LSI chip be perhaps co-related with the addition of a fan?

[lordsmurf]

Lord of the Smurfs,
Would a potential LSI chip be perhaps co-related with the addition of a fan?

Could be. LSI chips run hot compared to others.

The chip to look for here is either the DMN8602 or DMN8652. Yank off the top, and look. It may have a heatsink on it, meaning you'd have to pry it off and re-attach it later on with some heat compound. Not for the skiddish, but anybody tech minded or remotely brave should have no troubles.

[ncaahoops]

LordSmurf: I am definately not brave enough to do that. I have a history of breaking things in those situations.

I just found the user manual for the ES20 but it is for the UK version at http://www.panasonic.co.uk under Customer Support and Manuals.

Apart from the DV and the other things mentioned earlier in this thread, the only differences I noticed between it and the US manual for the ES10 is because of the different configuration/technology of the european TV system. But don't take this as canon because I did not compare them page by page.

[wqneu]

i am talking about models in US.
ES20 only has a DV(1394) port more than ES10.
I found some other things are worse:
1. Text Input for Disk name or title name.
ES10 could move cursor insert some characters some where.
ES20 could only key in or delete, when you try to move the cursor backward. it would delete previous character.
ES10 could save 20 phrases and load up
ES20 couldn't save phrases

2. Power Up
ES10 remembers previous recording mode. ( but it always show set up screen, that's annoy)
ES20 always starts with SP mode.

3. Recording:
When you press "pause" button during recording, ES10 would pop up a status box on right upper corner of the TV screen. ES20 wouldn't

[qlizard]

The ES20 also seems to be a bit of a step down from the ES10 in it's internals and capabilities.

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/es20_es10/high_picture_quality.html

Based on the above URL, it looks like only the ES10 uses the 12bit Analog-to-Digital Converter.

Has panasonic changed the information on the site from the link above? Unless I am missing something it looks like basically all the picture correction features are the same for the two models.

[bgclarke]

I don't think it has changed.

It still says that the "4x Natural Gradiation" (12-bit A/D converter) is ES10 only.

[qlizard]

I see now. I missed the little box saying "es10 only"

If I read through the rest of the site correctly, it looks like the EH50 and EH60 both have the same picture correction circuitry as the ES10, correct?

I'm interested in getting a unit mainly to feed old VHS tapes through for picture correction and converting to digital with my digital camcorder. But it would also be handy to be able to use it for recording TV, etc. Main thing, though is to make sure it has the picture correction discussed on this site.

[tsilit]

Hello Everyone,

I have been carefully reading these forum posts about the ES10 and the ES20 and finally felt I could contribute. I do not have experience with other DVD recorders as some other posters have had, but I am not a novice when it comes to audio and video.

DVD DISK COMPATIBILTY
I've had an ES20 for 3 weeks now (bought from BB) and I am a bit unhappy. The MAIN reason is that the dvds it creates do not play reliably on all my dvd players and PC. And for those who will ask...yes, I have finalized all the dvds I have burned.

The blanks I use have been Maxell DVD-R (8X) and TDK DVD-R (4X). These are not cheapo brands.

Using my PC DVD writer (NEC 2500A) with WinDVD, all that I get is that it either can't recognize them or it locks up WinDVD during playback.

I tried playing them on 2 IBM laptops with DVD drives and had bad results. I tried playing them on my XBOX and I get very flaky results. Sometimes it doesn't recognize the DVD at all, while other times the same DVD will only play for a chapter or two and abort.

The only unit that reads all of them perfectly is a brand new Toshiba DVD/VCR combo, and of course, the ES20 itself.

I am at wits end!!! I can't keep a machine that makes flaky DVDs that are only compatible on some players. I was planning to make DVDs to give to my family and I need them to be compatible.

FLEXIBLE RECORDING MODE
Next complaint is that the Flexible Record mode didn't give me great results when I tried it. In one case, I had recorded a home movie in SP mode and found that I needed 3 more minutes to complete the recording of the tape. I finalized the SP mode DVD, removed it, put a blank in, and I set FR to 2 hours and 5 minutes on a blank TDK DVD-R. Recorded the same exact content in FR. The result was that I got noticably poorer quality on the FR version than on the SP version. It added blockiness and noise. This was very dissapointing.

In the next FR scenario, I recorded a movie from cable that was 90 minutes long using FR set for 95 minutes. The resulting quality was good, but when I played this on my PC with WinDVD, it played for a little while and I noteced that the edges on the left and right sides of the frame seemed to be course looking. This was unusual.

RECORDING QUALITY
I have to say that the recordings that I have made in SP and XP are very good, although SP isn't a perfect copy. On my 53" Sony rear projection TV, I can still notice minor flaws that didn't exist in the source. I also used LP mode to DVD-RAM for TV shows that only planned to watch once and it was acceptable, but seemed to be worse than EP mode on my JVC VCR. Lastly EP (6 hour) mode is terrible.

The recordings of my Wedding VHS tape in SP mode using composite inputs was recorded nicely with tape noise being reduced a little. The camcorder dubs using S-video and SP mode were nice, but with a very slight degradation in quality.


I really need compatibility and I have read on another forum that DVD-RAM recorders are sometimes flaky with their recordings and compatibility, mainly due to the laser head sensitivity needed. Thus, they could produce DVDs that would be less compatible than non DVD-RAM recorders. If anyone has more information on this, please reply.

As of know, I think I'm ready to bail and get the Pioneer 531 or 533. (yes, I know, I know....people hate its TV Guide issues).

[gshelley61]

Can you open it up and see what kind of encoding chip it uses?

[trhouse]

I have an ES10 for a big family project. For best compatibility, I use Taiyo Yuden dvd-r, X4 media and Verbatim ( MCC variety ). The relatives seem to have every brand of player made. These were the only media with no complaints from anyone.

I now have a 531 as well. It was tested on this thread,

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279460

It has a soft image quality from the resolution tests which might look worse with your large screen TV.

[tsilit]

Thanks for the information trhouse. What I have been wondering, just as others on this thread, is whether the ES20 is 10-bit or 12-bit converson. Perhaps folks with the ES10 are getting better results than I am, quality wise, because the ES20 may not have the 12bit logic. I sent an email request for more information about 12bit and the ES20 to Panasonic 2 weeks ago and they did not reply at all.

As far as the Taiyo Uden, these may be hard for me to get my hands on in the next few days, but the Verbatim may be worth a try. What does (MCC Variety) mean?

My return period is ending fast so I have to make a decision to keep it or bail. Maybe the Verbatim blanks will guide me.

[r3n4ud]

What does (MCC Variety) mean?

It's the media ID. checkout the link to see what I mean

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

[tsilit]

Thanks for the link. My Maxell blanks are RITEK which are considered decent, however, the TDKs I used are TDKG02 which are supposed to be flawless according to this link. I'll try a few more TDKs.

[donpedro]

There use to be an issue with playback of DVD's recorded on Panasonics DVD Recorder (or recorders generaly). Maybe it is just that what youb are experiencing. Only solution was to extract mpeg file from DVD and reauthor (not copy or shrink) it again to get best compatibility.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175473

[Marvingj]

Pick up one from Fry's, Didn't like it at all. No Sync Filter like the Es10. Also the Black Level is Gray whay BullS'''t . Theres No LSI Chip. Colors look like Smear on . I will test it further but I probably tell this one back. The ES10 is definitely a Winner either for recording or pass thru. This Es20 is a real pip so far.

[bgclarke]

I sent an email request for more information about 12bit and the ES20 to Panasonic 2 weeks ago and they did not reply at all.

Try sending it to the Panasonic Canada support folks.

They usually respond within 1 to 2 days with a well researched answer (at least they did with the inquiries I sent them regarding the ES10).

[tsilit]

Well, I went and done it. I picked up a Pioneer 531 from Walmart ($298) and put it next to the Panasonic es20. My first impression is that the Pioneer is a very solid piece of equipment, well designed, and the features are great. It definately beats the Panny in these areas. I also love the hard drive and the flexibility of having one.

However, I have to say that the ES20's SP mode was better than the 531. On my 53" Sony, I can certainly notice more blocking and mosquito noise on the 531. I recorded the same cable show with both units. The Pioneer had composite in from the analog cable box and component out to to the TV, the Panny antenna in from the analog cable box and s-video to the TV. Still, the Panny looked better than the 531 and very close to the source program. This was very dissapointing, because I was hopefull that the 531 was going to work out for me. In XP mode, it was hard to tell the difference between the units. LP mode, the Panny had some blocks and noise, but had a sharper picture, while the 531 was soft looking, which hides some blocks.

Besides the most important feature which is PQ, the 531 was a beautiful unit. Now, what to do? I think I may take both back and get a Panny HD unit. Does anyone know if the HD units have decent editing? The other alternative is to not buy anything right now until Pioneer comes out with their next line with better PQ technology.