Switching old boot hard drive to new

[DVWannaB]

Gang,

I think that my hard drive is about to die on me. Currently, it is making these weird sounds like loud clicking and I keep getting assorted errors which for the love of god I have no idea what they mean. It also craps out on me and sometimes gives the blue screen of death. So I want to switch to a new hard drive before the old one dies and takes all my files (including videos).

I just wanted to make sure I was moving in the right direction with my plan.

1) I wanted to buy a new hard drive and connect it as a slave drive to the current master.

2) Copy all contents on the old hard drive to the new.

3) Disconnect old hard drive and conect new hard drive in its place and move the jumper pins back as only drive.

4) Boot up and everything should run as it did before.

Is this the way to go? Thanks.

[dvcd]

>>2) Copy all contents on the old hard drive to the new.
Windows and many programs Need INSTALL, copy does not work
>>4) Boot up from the new drive and everything should run as it did before.
You can not boot from the new drive which does not have any operation system installed.

[ozymango]

Copying the files directly from one drive to another will allow you to move your data over, but it won't work for your operating system (you're running Windows 2K?). For that you'll need to migrate or "clone" your OS (bunch of technical reasons), assuming your existing hard drive stays alive long enough to do this.

Do you already have a new hard drive? If you do, what brand is it? If you haven't got the drive yet, I know that both Maxtor and Western Digital drives ship with some basic but very useful software (on CD-ROM) that allow you to simply "clone" your existing hard drive to your new drive, then remove your old drive, set the new drive to be the primary, and voila, you've got a perfect copy of your old drive and all software ready to go. More detailed instructions are with the software.

So this should be pretty easy with one major caveat: If you're getting the click of death sound (shudder) and various blue screens of death, your drive could die at literally any minute or have enough corrupt sectors that you won't be able to do a simple clone because the software will start encountering a bunch of errors. But let's cross our fingers and hope for the best!

Along those lines, I would stop using this drive IMMEDIATELY and don't connect it again until you're ready to do the cloning process; the less activity you use the drive for, the more likely it'll stay alive at least long enough to get your data over.

Good luck! Let us know if you have more questions.

[BJ_M]

put your old drive upside down and very very cool (blow fan right on it)
while you are cloning it with ghost or equal type program -- you might get less errors (temp measure only)

[DVWannaB]

Copying the files directly from one drive to another will allow you to move your data over, but it won't work for your operating system (you're running Windows 2K?). For that you'll need to migrate or "clone" your OS (bunch of technical reasons), assuming your existing hard drive stays alive long enough to do this.

Do you already have a new hard drive? If you do, what brand is it? If you haven't got the drive yet, I know that both Maxtor and Western Digital drives ship with some basic but very useful software (on CD-ROM) that allow you to simply "clone" your existing hard drive to your new drive, then remove your old drive, set the new drive to be the primary, and voila, you've got a perfect copy of your old drive and all software ready to go. More detailed instructions are with the software.

So this should be pretty easy with one major caveat: If you're getting the click of death sound (shudder) and various blue screens of death, your drive could die at literally any minute or have enough corrupt sectors that you won't be able to do a simple clone because the software will start encountering a bunch of errors. But let's cross our fingers and hope for the best!

Along those lines, I would stop using this drive IMMEDIATELY and don't connect it again until you're ready to do the cloning process; the less activity you use the drive for, the more likely it'll stay alive at least long enough to get your data over.

Good luck! Let us know if you have more questions.

ozymango,

thanks for the words of wisdom. The new hard drive is a 80 GB Western Digital and should be here tomorrow. I am running Win98SE. Does this pose any problems? Ok, I will not use until new HD gets here and then clone old to new. I too am crossing my fingers. I do know there are some bad sectors on the old drive, but I am not sure how extensive. I tried a scan disk on Saturday, but it never completed the scan. I got an error message. (SIGH!!!!!) please god please please please....let this work.

put your old drive upside down and very very cool (blow fan right on it)
while you are cloning it with ghost or equal type program -- you might get less errors (temp measure only)

BJ_M,

the computer is in my basement office and stays "freezing cold" as my wife says all the time.

[ozymango]

thanks for the words of wisdom. The new hard drive is a 80 GB Western Digital and should be here tomorrow. I am running Win98SE. Does this pose any problems?

Hi again, thanks for the flattery .

Assuming your old drive stays alive for even just another hour or so, this should be a piece of cake -- Windows 98SE should copy over just fine.

Your drive should arrive with a CD-ROM containing "Data Lifeguard Tools," and it is bootable plus contains a drive-to-drive copy program that'll run in DOS mode, so what you should be able to do is:

1) Connect your two drives (old and new) to your computer, I'd default to making the new drive the primary and the old one the slave but I don't think it makes a difference for the tool to work.

2) Boot from the CD-ROM, and it should walk you through some basic load and install functions (text mode or very simple graphics) and one of these options will be the disc copy utility.

3) Then you just run that and clone your old drive to the new drive; when that's done, shut down the computer, remove the old drive, reboot from the new drive and voila, everything should just come back up as if the old drive had never died.

That's the theory, anyway; you might get some funky errors during this process due to bad disc sectors, but if that happens, it should give you an option to continue and skip bad sectors. Hopefully you can make it all the way to the end, restart, and Windows 98 should be able to launch anyway and reinstall any missing drivers. You may need to insert your Window 98 CD at some point, if the system encounters some weird error and needs to reload some drivers. But that's a maybe.

Anyway, check back in once your hard drive is here and let us know how it goes. Oh, and I like the "keep the drive as cool as possible and even try running it upside down" if you have any problems!

[Nelson37]

If your current drive is having that many errors, very high odds you will be copying garbage. Even if there is no error during copy (I use GHost), it is extremely likely you already have corrupted files. Which files, when will problems occur, what will they do? Random Probability.

Why risk the issue? Take new drive, install windows and all progs and drivers. At this point, you will almost certainly go thru a very useful sorting and elimination process. Even if not, at least all program files are now KNOWN to be good. Then copy over all data (no progs) from old drive. Then, if there is a corrupt file, the problem is limited to that one data file and will NOT be a cause of periodic, random system crashes.

Is it more of a pain? yes. Is it the best way to proceed? also yes.

Unless there are programs which cannot be re-installed, NEVER clone a boot drive which is already KNOWN to have problems.

[Gritz]

Nelson37 is correct ..... the absolute best solution is a fresh install (which is what I would do), but if you panic at starting over (or don't have the Win98SE disc) you can do the following to duplicate your drive: (won't work with XP though)

Open up the left side of your case, lay it on it's right side and disconnect the CDROM cables. Using the CDROM cables attach the new hard drive as master, laying it on the frame with a piece of insulating cardboard. Boot with the Windows98 Startup floppy (Add/Remove Programs) and using FDISK partition as the original was partitioned if you want (Primary and Extended/Logical) and format all the partitions, and name each drive the same as the old drive but add the word NEW (important).

Reboot and make sure the new drive is recognized in Windows. You should see both the original and the new hard drive. Now the scary part .... copying the old C: partition to the New Hard drive ... and the future C: Important ... all the original drive letters except C: are different (re-lettered)... so you have to be careful that you copy the old C: to the new blank NEW C: (which will actually be D: That is Until you put the new drive back in the spot where C: now resides and when you reboot all will be lettered correctly). As always, have all your important data backed up.

Now, hit Start/Run and type in the following: Xcopy C:\*.* /r /c /h /e /k D: and hit Enter and the old C: drive will be duplicated on the new hard drive. Do the same with the second partition using the CORRECT letters (your original D: drive will not be D: at this moment) being careful that you are copy to the new BLANK partition!!

When done, shutdown and replace the old hard drive with the new hard drive, replace the CDROM cable and power connector, and boot back up with the floppy. Go back into FDISK and make the Primary partition the active partition, and then you can reboot with the new hard drive.

Also, as BJ_M said .... it would be a good idea to run the old hard drive upside down while you do this, as it's probably in it's death throes now! If it does fail completely you might put it in the freezer for and hour or so, and then quickly remount and try again. Possibly you could keep it alive a little longer to squeeze out some more data.

[Nelson37]

NO, NO, NO. Copying progs and/or OS from a drive KNOWN to have data problems is a recipe for disaster.

Let me put it this way. You have a crock of soup. Several people ate some, just one got food poisoning. Are you going to pick and choose pieces from that same crock to make a new pot of soup? Or, do you throw it all out because some of it is contaminated?

Re-install. All you have to do is press Enter a few times, enter in a code number, and set the date and time. Since this is a win98 machine, you almost certainly have old progs that are no longer used, but which may be using system resources. Drivers? Download the latest ones, you should do this anyway.

You could get lucky on a copy and not have any important files damaged. This is a total crap shoot, and you will never know for sure if this is the case. You may also spend hours, days, or weeks troubleshooting oddball problems. Your choice.

[DVWannaB]

ok, I'll try these suggestions and report back. Hopefully new drive comes in today.

[Gritz]

Let me repeat myself again:

"The absolute best solution is a fresh install (which is what I would do), but if you panic at starting over (or don't have the Win98SE disc) you can do the following to duplicate your drive:"

Things to consider when suggesting what to do:

1. Not everyone has the original Windows Install Disk.
2. Not everyone has the original Windows Install Disk & the Code#s.
3. Not everyone has all the drivers for their original hardware, ie:
a. modem
b. sound cards
c. vga cards
4. Not everyone can retreive all their passwords (forgotten) and user data.
5. Not everyone can retreive all their pictures and documents.

So .... the BEST solution is ALWAYS a new install .... but there may be other circumstances that point to the alternative.

[DVWannaB]

Open up the left side of your case, lay it on it's right side and disconnect the CDROM cables. Using the CDROM cables attach the new hard drive as master, laying it on the frame with a piece of insulating cardboard. Boot with the Windows98 Startup floppy (Add/Remove Programs) and using FDISK partition as the original was partitioned if you want (Primary and Extended/Logical) and format all the partitions, and name each drive the same as the old drive but add the word NEW (important).

A bit of confusion on my part. So let me get this straight. After connecting new HD to CDROM cables as master, I got lost. Does that mean after turning machine on I insert my Win98 CD? This is a problem because I need the CDROM to run the Win98 CD. So what is the work-around? What is FDISK?

[Nelson37]

That procedure would be for a drive copy. Ghost would be better.

For fresh install, leave CD as is (or was, originally). Set new drive as master, and remove cables from old drive and attach to new. Cables should be keyed, but red stripe next to the power if not. If cables happen to be Cable Select cables, (should be marked and/or check jumper on original HD) Then set new drive jumper accordingly. Boot to Bios Setup, new drive should auto-recognize but check to make sure.

While in bios check for CD-rom as 1st boot device. Put Win98 cd in drive and boot. Off you go.

Also recommend take a look at XP pro, lots of nice improvements there. performance gains, ease of use. You will also appreciate that a high percentage of drivers are built-in.

[DVWannaB]

thank you Nelson. Will give it a go.

[Gritz]

Ummm .... If you're not familiar with FDISK then you probably should stick with the new install and forget about making a copy. Yes .... if you can pick up a copy of XP you'll see a definite improvement and stability. Easy install also. I think NewEgg has the XP Home for about $84 ... but I haven't checked lately.

[ozymango]

NO, NO, NO. Copying progs and/or OS from a drive KNOWN to have data problems is a recipe for disaster.

Sure. And if copying the files over to the new drive proves not to work, all he has to do is start over. So no damage done by giving the clone method a try.

The reason I suggested this, based on the little info provided: If this is the person's only drive, meaning he has not backed up anything and it could die at any time, the attempt here, is to recover as much data as possible. Building from scratch isn't that complicated, I think he could figure this out without any of our help. But if the purpose is to save as much data as possible as quickly as possible, doing a clone of the drive (using Ghost or the tools that come with many hard drives) allows a very fast "global" data dump from one drive to another.

And it can usually do this in several minutes, rather than booting it as a secondary drive and then trying to recover it that way. My experience has been (over several hundred drive recoveries as a computer tech for fifteen years), doing a ghost/clone of a drive can recover an extreme amout of data very quickly. Then you fix it later.

Again, this assumes the goal is to recover or save data, not rebuild a computer. Doing a reinstall from scratch is a great idea, definitely I would do this myself. But I would do this because I already back up everything important, a dead drive is just a minor problem for me. If this person is in the same situation, sure, just start from scratch. But if you want to save data from the old drive, this is probably your best bet.

[vitualis]

If you are running Win98SE, then a full copy (rather than cloning) can and does work. I've done it myself on a family member's machine to save it from impending doom (the HDD was clicking).

Install the second HDD and then in the command console, use xcopy to copy all files and folders. You will then need to "sys" the new HDD and I think use fdisk to make it the primary partition. I don't quite remember, but you may need to take out the original HDD and boot from a boot floppy to the the fdisk process.

I agree with Nelson that you may well have problems with system stability -- particularly if you already have data corruption. However, it it does work, it will save you a lot of hassle with reinstallation.

Regards.

[Nelson37]

The problem with the corrupted files is that they are not going to jump up and announce themselves at the time of copy. They could be discovered days, weeks, even months later. Even then, the problems they cause may or may not be obvious. Progs could work, but particular functions could cause problems. These problems could very well involve CAUSING further data corruption. You could copy over a perfectly good data file and then have some corrupted prog mangle it completely. This mangling can occur over time, rather than all at once, such that a 5-day tape rotation would have 5 seperate backups of increasingly corrupted and unrepairable files. I have seen this happen.

I want to emphasize that the determination that the copy procedure "worked" does NOT occur when the system boots and progs run. AFTER every prog on the system has been run, and every single operation that prog is capable of has been tested, on every type of file it will open, then and only then can you make a reasonable guess that no corrupted files were copied. Or can you? How many program operations are beyond user control? How many backround functions are performed?

Corrupted DATA is just probably lost. Corrupted PROGRAMS can cause further damage. More likely to lead to random crashes and lockups, which are sometimes repeatable (leading to specific diagnosis), and sometimes not (leading to user frustration).

The average user is just NOT going to be able to "fix this later".

Re-install OS and progs. THEN, copy over all data. Basically, everything EXCEPT Program and Windows directories. You could even copy the Program directories, just do NOT overwrite any existing files. (This is AFTER program re-installation). This is because some progs store data in their own program directory.

This gives you a complete backup. The only thing lost would be particular configuration settings in re-installed progs. The seperate data files could still be bad, but they will not cause further corruption.

The only way I would clone such a drive for a customer would be on their specific request, with the understanding that NO WARRANTY would attach to this service. The liklihood of customer dissatisfaction with such a procedure being so high, there would be lengthy explanation and without some good reason to do so, I would refuse to perform such a procedure.