Recorded DVD picture jumps, original VHS source doesn't

[bigj7489]

Been having a problem with a few video transfers and I'm at my wit's end.

I have some old hockey games I'm trying to transfer from older VHS tapes (1980s) to DVD. I have a JVC Super VHS VCR that I've never had any problems with, and an Emerson DVD recorder that I've also never had any significant problems with.

The VHS source tapes are great. I'm using good quality DVDs (TDK's, had Memorex previously as well with same result on both)

My output DVDs on playback seem to skip a frame during fast-moving sections of the video. This problem isn't present on the source tapes. It's driving me nuts.

I've tried this with the transfer hooked up through both RCA cables and with SVHS cable with same result. Tried new cables in both cases. Tried different brands of DVDs. Tried different source tapes. Same result. Even tried various record speeds...no luck.

I've done everything but switch out the VCR (doable, but this is the best one I've got) or switch out the DVD recorder (which would require buying a new one).

Anyone run into this kind of thing before? Any advice would be appreciated...these are one of a kind tapes from a defunct local league that I'd love to preserve in the best quality possible.

[lordsmurf]

You're probably not using "good quality DVDs."
You're very likely using hit-or-miss CMC discs, sold under Memorex or TDK brands.
See the Blank Disc Quality Guide - Help Picking the Best Blank DVDs

Which model JVC VCR? Is it one of the suggested models?
See the VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional)

If the DVD shows it jumping, it had to jump when the VCR played it to the DVD recorder.
Did you watch it transfer?

[bigj7489]

JVC HR-S6800U

Watched it transfer. No jump on the playback, jump on the final recording.

I'm baffled otherwise. Tried various media - it seems like it's GOT to be an issue with the connections. I just don't know.

[jjeff]

My output DVDs on playback seem to skip a frame during fast-moving sections of the video. This problem isn't present on the source tapes.

When you record something other than VHS tapes on your DVDR(from it's tuner or line input) does that skip?
In the past I've owned a few Memorex DVD players that would skip when playing a burned DVD. It's possible your player(or recorder) is at fault. Sylvaina is made by Funai and generally isn't a very good recorder.
If I had to guess I'd blame the recorder and if you're using something other than the recorder to play back your DVDs I'd also suspect that.
As LS said TDK is made by Memorex and both are about the worst choice for media available. Ty's are best(only mail order) and Verbatims (AZO on label) are about as good as B&M carries. I've had good luck with Sony media also.

[bigj7489]

No skipping from sources other than the VHS.

Hmm - the guide LS pointed me to says TDK are good.

Let me clarify - they're not "skipping." When the action on the disc is fast, it's like there's a missing frame...way quicker than what I'd qualify as a skip...there's even a slight bounce to the image when it does it. It's odd.

Every player I try the finished discs in gives the same result, so it's not the player. I'll keep trying, I suppose. Different media for sure, first.

[bigj7489]

Tried hooking up an older VCR. It worked. Completely eliminated the jittery mess I was encountering before. Go figure! One of those cases of some machines not liking some sources, I guess.

Thanks to everyone for your help - am totally taking advice on media suggestions etc in the future.

[MOVIEGEEK]

My guess is you dropped frames when you recorded. Do the DVD's look ok on your PC?
Use Mediainfo on the VOB's and post the results here, also post a short clip.

[jagabo]

I suspect you need a full frame time base corrector.

[bigj7489]

I suspect you need a full frame time base corrector.

Got any recommendations for a good one?

[jagabo]

I suspect you need a full frame time base corrector.

Got any recommendations for a good one?

The Datavideo TBC-100 and TBC-1000, and AV Toolbox AVT-8710 are mentioned around here a lot.

[lordsmurf]

Hmm - the guide LS pointed me to says TDK are good.

No. The guide is by manufacturer and not brand.
TDK branded discs are undoubtedly CMC media. Look for CMC on that guide.

I suspect you need a full frame time base corrector.

Got any recommendations for a good one?

Sure thing. AVT-8710 @ http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...3167/KBID/4166 (B&H = best price)
And just for good measure, read this: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

That Emerson DVD recorder is also what I'd call passable at best. See the DVD recorder reviews page.
I have a lot of experience with that "model" (same unit was sold under several brands). It's a Chinese kit, grainy encoding, no filtering, often makes DVDs that look worse than the tapes.

[bigj7489]

Hmm - the guide LS pointed me to says TDK are good.

No. The guide is by manufacturer and not brand.
TDK branded discs are undoubtedly CMC media. Look for CMC on that guide.

I suspect you need a full frame time base corrector.

Got any recommendations for a good one?

Sure thing. AVT-8710 @ http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...3167/KBID/4166 (B&H = best price)
And just for good measure, read this: What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

That Emerson DVD recorder is also what I'd call passable at best. See the DVD recorder reviews page.
I have a lot of experience with that "model" (same unit was sold under several brands). It's a Chinese kit, grainy encoding, no filtering, often makes DVDs that look worse than the tapes.

Thanks for all the info. I must have lucked out with the TDK's I bought because the number matches your good ones under the TDK (TTG01). Have been thinking about replacing the Emerson...I'm glad I got this mess figured out for the time being though.

[davideck]

Let me clarify - they're not "skipping." When the action on the disc is fast, it's like there's a missing frame...way quicker than what I'd qualify as a skip...there's even a slight bounce to the image when it does it. It's odd.

The frame skipping might be the result of frame synchronization in the DVD Recorder. This could be verified by watching the tape through the DVD Recorder in passthrough mode (without recording). If the skipping is still there, then the frame sync is dropping (or repeating) a frame every so often to compensate for the slight timing difference between the VCR output and the frame sync reference. A hockey game with constant camera panning and constant motion may reveal single frame discontinuities that might otherwise go unnoticed.

A different VCR will have slightly different output timing. This will change how often the frame sync has to drop or repeat a frame. Does the other VCR eliminate the skipping completely, or does it just occur less often?

[bigj7489]

Let me clarify - they're not "skipping." When the action on the disc is fast, it's like there's a missing frame...way quicker than what I'd qualify as a skip...there's even a slight bounce to the image when it does it. It's odd.

The frame skipping might be the result of frame synchronization in the DVD Recorder. This could be verified by watching the tape through the DVD Recorder in passthrough mode (without recording). If the skipping is still there, then the frame sync is dropping (or repeating) a frame every so often to compensate for the slight timing difference between the VCR output and the frame sync reference. A hockey game with constant camera panning and constant motion may reveal single frame discontinuities that might otherwise go unnoticed.

A different VCR will have slightly different output timing. This will change how often the frame sync has to drop or repeat a frame. Does the other VCR eliminate the skipping completely, or does it just occur less often?

The other VCR (which is probably as old as the tapes - I dunno if that matters) eliminates the jitter completely.

[jjeff]

That AVT-8710 is sure a nice looking TBC. And while $214 may be expensive to some, it's really not that more expensive than the better video filters that some buy to bypass CP. A TBC not only does what a filter does but does it better and has more options for changing your output. Most filters only have a few canned settings(for changing picture output) none of which are much good other than the default, IMO.
As the old adage goes, you get what you pay for.
Glad the VCR did the trick for you, it's always best to have several VCRs to try for conversion projects. The best player won't necessarily play your tapes best, on occasion I've found the cheaper ones work best. Especially if your tapes were recorded in SP on a 2 video head(multi-speed) machine.
I always try the better machines first but if they give me problems I try others moving down the line.