Are 'live' MPEG-encoders any good?

[DVantrease]

I've been doing (X)VCD's for a year now with great results, but always from ripping DVDs and now I'm thinking of trying to capture some of my family home videos. I don't currently have a capture card, and was wanting some advice one which type I'd need. I know almost nothing about the Dazzle series, tv cards, etc. Now the ones that claim you can capture in VCD format on-the-fly, are they very good? Is there much frame loss, and how is the MPG quality? If they are anything less then great, I'll probably look more at capturing in AVI format and then converting. I'd like to capture at as high a resolution/bitrate as I can, and currently using an Athlon-800 (overclocked) and Win98.

Thanks for any advice anyone can give. Oh I'd really like to stay in the $100 range.

[Anonymous65]

http://steve.kittelsen.com/pv231

[DVantrease]

Cool, I'll look into that one. From reading some reviews, I take it the external (USB) ones aren't too good? Anyone else have other suggestions in this price-range?

[herokid]

You're looking for 'good' mpg1 real time capture but don't want to spend more than 100 bucks.
Ton's of user inputs to the left.
Typically USB is too damn slow for good anything in my experience.
Out of your price range but DVCII does fine mpg2 captures at very high bitrates on P3-500.

[sracer]

"On-the-fly" encoders that use software to encode to MPEG don't do such a great job. Capture devices that use custom hardware chips to do the MPEG encoding are much better and are less of a resource drag on the system.

I highly recommend the Dazzle DVC (USB version). It is a hardware MPEG capture device. I have been using mine for nearly 2 years and have had great results. Check out my homepage for a sample, unretouched video clip captured using the Dazzle.
http://pags.prodigy.net/tcperconti/

herokid, USB is very much capbable of realtime (VideoCD-compliant) MPEG1 capture (providing that it is the hardware that is doing the encoding, and not software). The only time that USB is inadequate is for realtime uncompressed captures.

[geniv]

for mpeg1/vcd capture I suggest you get an actual hardware mpeg capture card.

I tried alot of those "realtime" software mpeg/vcd encoder and the qualit is always way behind the hardware encoders.

[DVantrease]

My big concern is I did have a tv card a few years ago (which also captured), but I had one hell of a time getting it to work, and now I can't get it to work at all. It was an STB TV PCI card, and it was near impossible to get the IRQ and memory resources just right, I only had once where I got it and everything else to work at once. I sure hope the modern cards work better!

Another question, the ones that do hardware encoding, are they flexible as far as changing the settings go? I mean as far as bitrate and resolution.

[sracer]

DVantrease, hardware MPEG capture devices, like the Dazzle DVC (USB version) do an outstanding of capturing VCD-compliant MPEG1 files. Yes, you can alter the bitrates, though resolution is pretty much fixed to 2 sizes. If you get one, just make sure that you get the right model. Dazzle has a screwy naming scheme for their products. Stay away from the DVC 50, and DVC 80... they are NOT hardware MPEG devices.

Here's the correct URL for my homepage (for a sample DVC clip):
http://pages.prodigy.net/tcperconti/

As for TV cards, they have greatly improved since the old STB TV card days. If you have a PCI slot and appropriate operating system, you can get a very nice TV card very inexpensively... I picked up my I/O Magic PC PVR TV card for around $40.

[lusid]

sracer,
"hardware MPEG capture devices, like the Dazzle DVC (USB version) do an outstanding of capturing VCD-compliant MPEG1 files. "
Maybe, provided your source is pristine. Even then the dazzle is much more likely to disintigrate into macro blocks during high motion scenes than a good lossless capture & software encode. On marginal source material you're not going to be so lucky.

DVantrease, a Dazzle may still work for you if your videos are in good shape and you up the bitrate on the captures, just don't expect good quality VCD compliant captures with it from anything less than a DVD source.

[sracer]

lusid, sorry but in my nearly 2 years of using the Dazzle DVC (USB version) I have discovered that it can handle high motion scenes. I've captured from DVD players, VCRs (tapes of varying qualities), and Camcorders... and I can honestly say that the compression artifacts were only marginally more noticeable than uncompressed capture/software encoding.

Technically speaking, the quality of hardware MPEG capturing of VCD-compliant MPEGs is inferior to the 2 step uncompressed capture, software encoding process, but the difference, in my opinion anyways, is marginal and not worth the additional 3:1 encoding time required.

The bottom line is that video quality is in the eye of the beholder. And there are many other factors involved besides the method of capturing video. I've lost count of how many people have spent the time and energy to create the best possible VCD only to play them on crappy Apex DVD players.

[lusid]

Interesting.

It's hard to believe we are talking about the same Dazzle DVC USB. I tried for months to get good quality out of it, but it's been collecting dust for a couple of years now. It's one of the few PC hardware purchases I've ever regretted, and back when I bought mine it was a $250 item.

I'd gladly dust it off and put it to work if I could get anything close to what I get with tmpgenc, even without the benefit of virtualdub's filters.

[Panash]

I have a Provideo PV256 which I consider to be an excellent MPEG1/MPEG2 capture card.

See Ian Normans's website at

http://www.iln.com.au/

PN

[deadpac]

Luid, there's no point in arguing with Sracer, he's the only person in the WORLD that would live and die for his precious Dazzle DVC I [USB]. And that's just sad!

Sracer has this jaded view of capturing with Dazzle DVC I; at first I thought it was because he was a typical h8ter who was just trying to justify his purchase of a product, but it went beyond that; he has a sort of love for his Dazzle that's just downright eery.

"Stay away from Sracer and his magical Dazzle DVC I, the powers contained in his Dazzle cannot, I repeat cannot be found in any other Dazzle DVC I. He alone contains the most powerful Dazzle DVC I capable of making anything look good in MPEG-1"

"nobody can stop us from making moves
-this right here is a verbal documentary in the lives of Numb, Dru Down, and Yuck

Sracer please don't flame back, like I know you will "because he challenged the honor of my fair Dazzle, I must"
Don't like it, Ignore It, NUFF SAID!


I don't bother coming back to old post's like this, because winning an argument over the internet whether BBS, Chat, or MB is like winning in the Special Olympics "Everybody Wins"

[geniv]

hmmm, as an independant guy with time to spare, how about lending me the Dazzle DVC so I can make a comparison

I alrady tried the, PV256,PV233, DVCII, REAL MAGIC DVR, SNAZZI. just wondering how the DVCI stand with the other cards.

[Tony Yip]

Panash, since you have the PV256 and it's working, can you tell me what your hardware setup is?

I know it's pretty picky with the hardware configuration in the PC.

Also, does the mpeg-1 encoding happen at only standard VCD bitrate 1.15 mb/sec or can you adjust it in software capture app?

Same question applies to mpeg-2 encoding.

[buzz10]

DVantrease,

In my opinion you can get a higher quality video at a lower cost if you get something like a WinTV capture card for $40 or $50 instead of a Dazzle. True, some of the Dazzles do realtime encoding, but it is usually less quality than if you use a capture card and then process the video using VirtualDub and TMPGenc...I think the capture card route offers much more flexibility, higher quality, and lower cost.