Windows XP & NETBEUI Protcol

[rkr1958]

I got my wife a Centrino notebook for Mother's Day. All see really does is email, internet, listening to music and watching videos so the 1.6 GHz Pentium M is fine for her. Anyway, I had no problem getting it cofigured to run with my D-Link wireless router to which two desktops (mine & mine wifes) are connected via LAN.

Both Desktops run W2K Pro and use NETBEUI to share files. My wife's new laptop is loaded with XP Home and came with NO recovery disks. There is a small harddrive partition that contains the preinstalled O/S & software and I did make a DVD of this shortly after we fired it up the first time.

After doing some web searching I found out that Microsoft had drop support for NETBEUI in XP and recommend TCP/IP for file sharing. However, you could load NETBEUI for the Windows XP disc ... but guess what? I didn't get a Windows XP disc.

After more web searching I did find a place that I could download the two files required to install NETBEUI in XP. Installed and now I can see the shared printer & folders on my two desktops from the laptop. However, I still can't see the laptop from either desktop ... but I haven't set up any sharing yet on the laptop.

My questions ... from what I read using the NETBEUI protcol is for file sharing is safer than using TCP / IP ... is this true? Why did Microsoft go away from support of NETBEUI?

By the way, I'm using 128-bit encryption & MAC address filtering with my wireless router. The only MAC addresses I'm allowing are the two desktops, the laptop & my TIVO network connector. Also, I'm running Zonealarm Pro firewall and all computers.

[Prot]

Have you TRIED installing NETBEUI anyway? The needed file might already be on the hard drive, just not installed.

TCP/IP is now the predominant protocol for networking. Even Apple and Novell are switching over. It's not necessarily better in your case, but you may want to move over to it if you are not able to install NETBEUI on your wife's laptop.

If XP Home is licensed to you (or your wife) you are intitled to the installation CD or recovery CD. If the seller refuses, tell them you will notify Microsoft of their possible illegal practice.

[rkr1958]

It's my wife's laptop ... I bought it brand new from Best Buy ... I know ... I built my last computer, my wife's desktop and one for my nephew. It killed me to have to buy a laptop ...

Anyway, it's a Gateway and I did try to install NETBEUI from the Networking screen but that option was not available. I did do a search for the necessary two files ("NBF.SYS" & NETNBF.INF") but couldn't find them on the harddrive. I did find them on the net, downloaded and installed them. It seems to be working fine.

I would like to get a copy of the XP home disc ... If I understood what you'd said then either Best Buy or Gateway should provide me with the disc if I request it.

Thanks.

[handyguy]

Did you try making a Networking disk with XP? You don't need the windows disk for it. Look at the desktop, push F1, search for 'network'.

[rkr1958]

No ... I didn't know about that option ... I'll give it a try. Thanks.

[ofbarea]

You could also install Netbeui from Windows 2000 installation disks in WXP. A better option will be instaling IPX/SPX in both machines and forget Netbeui.

[Prot]

if you are going to go to the trouble of installing IPX/SPX, you might as well just go with TCP/IP.

[ofbarea]

IPX/SPX will require some configuration for routing, but for PCs connected to the same hub it is just a matter of installing the protocol stack. Everything will work as using NetBeui.

It its true that IPX/SPX stack is a bit slower that TCP/IP, but configuring a small network is simpler than setting up TCP/IP.

[ozymango]

My questions ... from what I read using the NETBEUI protcol is for file sharing is safer than using TCP / IP ... is this true? Why did Microsoft go away from support of NETBEUI?

I'm guessing MicroSloth stopped support of netbeui because it wasn't profitable -- everybody went to TCP/IP and why continue working on it? Anyway, that's just a guess; also I think MS got it from IBM in the first place and they had to use it in the early LAN network because MS's handling of TCP/IP was sorta fecked ... but don't quote me on this.

But yeah, in the old days netbeui was safer for file sharing for the simple reason that netbeui can't be routed -- it only works if you're on the same subnet, so if you wanted two LANs to talk to each other, you couldn't use netbeui, you had to use TCP/IP. That probably has something to do with MS dropping it -- you've gotta have TCP/IP anyway to get past a router so why use two protocols when you can get by with one?

So yeah, netbeui is "safer" if you're just doing the most basic install and don't set any security stuff, and you want to block anybody outside your network from seeing files, but, based on the network you describe and the security measures you've already put into place, it sounds like you're already running a pretty tight ship -- installing netbeui won't hurt anything but I don't think it's worth the time and effort.

But if you wanna do this, of course you won't hurt anything and I just found an official note from MS on doing this --

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;301041

Good luck!

[rkr1958]

I got NetBEUI installed on the XP notebook and got filesharing and printer sharing working. I decided to upgrade my router from 802.11b to one that supports 802.11g in order to get higher bandwidth and be able to stream (i.e., watch) movies and DVDs from my desktop to my laptop. Anyway, here's an email I sent to D-Link,

Setup: Two desktops running Win2000 Pro SP4 connected via LAN, laptop (Centrino) running WinXP Home SP2 connected via wireless & TIVO connected via wireless (D-Link DWL-122). With my old D-Link router DI-514 ... no problems with all devices connecting to the internet & no problems with filesharing between the two desktops & the wireless laptop. The two desktops and the laptop are using the NetBEUI networking protocol & have NetBios over TCP/IP enabled.

I replaced the DI-514 with the DI-624 in order to get the higher bandwidth 802.11g over the wireless. No problems with all devices connecting to the internet & with the two desktops sharing files. However, the laptop no longer sees either desktop and is unable to ping either also. The desktops can ping the laptop but can't see it under the network places. All three are still using the NetBEUI networking protocol & have NetBios over TCP/IP enabled. The only thing that's changed is the DI-624 router.

How can I get filesharing to work again between the wireless laptop and the desktop(s)?

I got a response from them (which I won't post) which I considered very weak and I felt totally missed the point. The basic issue, which I apparently didn't convey very well to them, was that everything else was the same between the two setups except the router (DI-514 & DI-624). With the DI-514 I can share files between the wireless notebook and the two desktops, with the DI-624 I can only share files between the two desktops. I searched the web and found that many have this same problem with the DI-624. What I was hoping for was some configuration setting in the DI-624 that I could change and that would fix this.

I'm posting this here in the hopes that someone has some ideas on other things I might could try. I'm at a loss ... I like the DI-624 with the exception of this problem ... I just thought it'd be a simple swap out and re-configure and I'd have higher bandwidth. By the way, I did flash the DI-624 (RevC) to the latest firmware ... no help.

Thanks again and any ideas would be greatly appericated.

[stiltman]

I got NetBEUI installed on the XP notebook and got filesharing and printer sharing working. I decided to upgrade my router from 802.11b to one that supports 802.11g in order to get higher bandwidth and be able to stream (i.e., watch) movies and DVDs from my desktop to my laptop. Anyway, here's an email I sent to D-Link,

Setup: Two desktops running Win2000 Pro SP4 connected via LAN, laptop (Centrino) running WinXP Home SP2 connected via wireless & TIVO connected via wireless (D-Link DWL-122). With my old D-Link router DI-514 ... no problems with all devices connecting to the internet & no problems with filesharing between the two desktops & the wireless laptop. The two desktops and the laptop are using the NetBEUI networking protocol & have NetBios over TCP/IP enabled.

I replaced the DI-514 with the DI-624 in order to get the higher bandwidth 802.11g over the wireless. No problems with all devices connecting to the internet & with the two desktops sharing files. However, the laptop no longer sees either desktop and is unable to ping either also. The desktops can ping the laptop but can't see it under the network places. All three are still using the NetBEUI networking protocol & have NetBios over TCP/IP enabled. The only thing that's changed is the DI-624 router.

How can I get filesharing to work again between the wireless laptop and the desktop(s)?

I got a response from them (which I won't post) which I considered very weak and I felt totally missed the point. The basic issue, which I apparently didn't convey very well to them, was that everything else was the same between the two setups except the router (DI-514 & DI-624). With the DI-514 I can share files between the wireless notebook and the two desktops, with the DI-624 I can only share files between the two desktops. I searched the web and found that many have this same problem with the DI-624. What I was hoping for was some configuration setting in the DI-624 that I could change and that would fix this.

I'm posting this here in the hopes that someone has some ideas on other things I might could try. I'm at a loss ... I like the DI-624 with the exception of this problem ... I just thought it'd be a simple swap out and re-configure and I'd have higher bandwidth. By the way, I did flash the DI-624 (RevC) to the latest firmware ... no help.

Thanks again and any ideas would be greatly appericated.

If all computers are using TCP/IP, why are you running NetBEUI?
BTW, Ping only works with TCP/IP

Also have you added entries to your LMHost file? I would if I were you.

If you are using NetBEUI for a security reason for file sharing, you're pretty much defeting the purpose by having TCP/IP on all of them. That is unless you know how to setup the bindings for your NICs.

FWIW, NetBIOS over TCP/IP means nothing to NetBEUI

[rkr1958]

If all computers are using TCP/IP, why are you running NetBEUI? BTW, Ping only works with TCP/IP

Also have you added entries to your LMHost file? I would if I were you.

If you are using NetBEUI for a security reason for file sharing, you're pretty much defeting the purpose by having TCP/IP on all of them. That is unless you know how to setup the bindings for your NICs.

FWIW, NetBIOS over TCP/IP means nothing to NetBEUI

I'm using NetBEUI because that's what I'm familar with and that's what I used to share files between my two desktops running W2K Pro. I've also heard that NetBEUI is more secure that TCP/IP.

I don't know what a LMHost file is ... so I have not added any entries to it.

I though since I got filesharing to work with the wireless laptop using NetBEUI that it'd be a breeze to get it work with the new router (DI-624). Is NetBEUI my problem? Should I uninstall it and switch my network over to TCP/IP?

[rkr1958]

One more piece of info ... I hooked up the laptop via LAN and was able to share files ... This implies that the problem seems to lie in the router wireless configuration. Any thoughts there?

[stiltman]

Not familiar with that wireless, but maybe it doesn't support NetBEUI over the wireless connection.

Yes, I would uninstall NetBEUI unless you have a specific need for it (ie security, with dual NICs and seperate bindings for each NIC)

If your whole network is behind a a dlink appliance, then I think the default network is 192.168.0.1?
Every computer should be getting their IP from the dlink appliance? In a small network like that, I would setup all the IPs as static. To find all the info you need to enter, just do "ipconfig /all" at a command prompt. Now the browsing part via network places. the first computer up will be the master browser (NetBIOS over TCP/IP and how you see shares via network places) until the XP box connects. Then the XP box will become the master browser. To make it all work 100% of the time, I like to add entries to the LMHosts file (system32/drivers/etc/lmhosts.sam is the sample file. after editing save it as "lmhosts" without a file extension) The entries I would add in your case would be some thing like

IP address [tab key] Computer name [tab key] #PRE

or

192.168.0.2 [tab] desktop1 [tab] #PRE
192.186.0.3 [tab] desktop2 [tab] #PRE
192.158.0.4 [tab] laptop1 [tab] #PRE

TCP/IP is really the only way to go now. Again unless you have a specific need to use another protocol. And for a 3-10 computer network, static IPs are the only way to go, especially if you're sharing files and a printer.

[studtrooper]

I've also heard that NetBEUI is more secure that TCP/IP.

That is BS. NetBEUI talks to PCs via MAC addresses instead of pre-determined IP addresses with TCP/IP. If someone wanted in bad enough, NetBEUI will not be a concern. If you haven't learned TCP/IP by now, get ready to, Longhorn completely drops support for it...

[stiltman]

I've also heard that NetBEUI is more secure that TCP/IP.

That is BS. NetBEUI talks to PCs via MAC addresses instead of pre-determined IP addresses with TCP/IP. If someone wanted in bad enough, NetBEUI will not be a concern. If you haven't learned TCP/IP by now, get ready to, Longhorn completely drops support for it...

Actualy, NetBEUI is more secure. Hackers don't even mess with it becuase it's so out date. Also, NetBEUI is one of the fastest protocols around. Also with much less overhead compared to TCP. Plus3, there's nothing to setup Just install and go.

Edit:
BTW, EVERY protocol is based off the MAC address. If you don't believe me. Ask what happened to 3COM when they sold duplicate MACs on their NICs to Asia back in the 90s

[studtrooper]

[quote="stiltman"]

I've also heard that NetBEUI is more secure that TCP/IP.

Edit:
BTW, EVERY protocol is based off the MAC address. If you don't believe me. Ask what happened to 3COM when they sold duplicate MACs on their NICs to Asia back in the 90s

Ok, if you want to get technial, that is true (media has to go through a piece of hardware... which has a MAC). I was trying to point out that NetBEUI uses MACs as a IP adress (so to say). As for the hacking aspects, I shal investigate further...

[stiltman]

You can only Hack NetBEUI if you are on the same LAN and you can also duplicate ones MAC......In my book, that's pretty damn secure


BTW, that's also givin that you can do all this during the trade off of the token......Yep, only one person can talk at a time with NetBEUI

[studtrooper]

NetBEUI is a ring topology protocol? Are you sure?

[ofbarea]

He is not talking about token ring. He is talking about a token passing protocol

Token passing could be implemented in bus, star or ring topology.

[rkr1958]

SOLVED ... The problem was with ZoneAlarm Pro ... Thanks to the help you guys gave me, which helped me troubleshoot me problem, I figured out that the ZoneAlarm Pro firewall was blocking my wireless laptop. Once I added the IP address of the laptop to "Zones" under the Firewall Tab filesharing and printer sharing seems to be working fine. I guess I need to add all the IP addresses that the router my assign, which is controlled in the router configuration.

Thanks again everyone ... letting me bounce my problems off of you and for your inputs.

[stiltman]

SOLVED ... The problem ...Once I added the IP address...

OK so why are you using NetNEUI again????????

[rkr1958]

SOLVED ... The problem ...Once I added the IP address...

OK so why are you using NetNEUI again????????

I have gone to static IP's now. I'm using NetBEUI because that what's I familar with and I've got everything working the way I want. I really do apperciate your help and I know one day that I'll need to change from NetBEUI to TCP/IP. Especially since MS dropped support for NetBEUI in XP.

Thanks again

[rkr1958]

One last thing that I finally solved, that I thought was worth passing along ... Everything was networked and sharing like I wanted except that I could not see the shared folders on the laptop from either of the two desktop machines. Both desktops could successfully ping the laptop by IP and by computer name. The solution ... unbelieveable ... the description of the computer (not's name but it's description) was too long. Once I shortened it ... I could see if from both desktops. I discovered this through a google search ... I took me several searches and three nights so I thought that I'd pass it along. [See response number 8 from http://www.computing.net/networking/wwwboard/forum/24890.html ]

[stiltman]

sounds to me like you set up everything to run by TCP/IP, so why have NetBEUI installed?

[rkr1958]

stiltman, I really appreciate your help and the time you took to respond. Thanks again and I couldn't solved my network / file sharing issue without your help.

[INFRATOM]

Sorry I didn't read all the responses hope I don't repeat something. few thing about NETBUI protocal, it is not routable and it is Unsafe , this was for peer to peer type of network which is not secure infact you should not have it if you want to be secure. Also ipx/spx is Novell protocal it is routable but use it if you are running Novell OS. NETbios is also unsafe. Look under security for networks, in short you have to make your computers invisible from outside world to be safe.

[INFRATOM]

One other note, I saw some one commented. In peer to peer networks that used NETBUI the computer broadcasts its message and the intended computer when hears it will accept the packet like walkie talkie principal in tcp/ip it delivers it to special address like phone connection so you have less traffic and less chance of being sniffed by special equipment.

[rkr1958]

O.K. ... O.K. ... I GIVE ... please be patient with me on this but could someone explain in fairly simple and direct terms ... Now that I got everything working like I want ... Why should I switch from NetBEUI to TCP/IP?

Thanks again all of you for your help.

[INFRATOM]

NETBUI cannot get past a router, you say you have a wireless Router ! even if you install NETBUI your router will connect through tcp/ip or other routable protocal.